Methanol + E10 + SEFI/MPFI = mpg gain? - Page 4 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 07-08-2008, 04:46 PM   #31
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That duty cycle sounds a touch high for freeway cruise. I'd have said 20%, since many 4 bangers will do over 30mpg (Less than 13lb/hr) on 4x14lb/hr injectors, which I think are rated at 80% usually. Intake duration is prolly somewhere around 250-300 degrees out of 720. So they have to go over about 40%ish before they're spraying into an open valve because the valve duration is 35-40% max of the cycle, so to leave enough time for 80% WOT at full duty cycle they'd have to start approx 300 degrees before valve opening.

Though.... in batch fire arrangements they may be under 40% but triggered twice at 20% a time, but due to spacing between the firings the second firing may overlap the valve opening.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:12 PM   #32
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Anyway... Marvin has had me scratching my head today, couldn't find anything "wrong" but the MPG has dived, 22.8 this tank He starts real hard and spits out a high cloud of white/gray smoke very gassy smelling so I'm positive he's running rich for some stupid reason....

However.... since it's the methanol I'm messing with, and since I think I got a GREAT tank on it initially I'm still messing/persevering with it.

Latest theory..... looking at my gaslog it occured to me that I might have had some TC-W3 lurking around in the fuel system when I tried that initial dose. Rather minor amounts... but .... so I'm looking up exactly the kind of crap TC-W3 oils have in them and there's a plethora, a panoply, nay a profusion of different additives they put in them. So I go hunting wabbits*cough* I mean catalysts... well it's like nailing jello to a tree there, since TC-W3 oils can have bajillions of different compounds in there. Prime suspects are molybdenum, boron and zinc, though in relatively minute quantities for everything, but catalysts just get the ball rolling sometimes, especially when they're in solution, you don't need much of them.. I was using OMC Evinrude TC-W3 outboard oil, of uncertain vintage, I got a couple of bottles for 50c each at a yard sale some while back. OMC particularly, seems to have lots of moly and PIB in.

Well it didn't do anything much with the isopropyl in there... or when it went in with the acetone... but I thought what the hell, maybe my theory about it coating the potential catalytic surfaces is wrong if it is the damn catalyst. So this time I stuck an ounce of that, it had possibly a quarter ounce left in the whole tank the first run of methanol, so if it worked with that an ounce is plenty, in the tank with 16oz of methanol the same as the initial dose....

well, first run this afternoon on the fresh tank.... I'm liking it again, it's not feeling "fruity rich" and I've got that odd faint "pibblepobble" sound I was getting at certain RPM on the first tank. Also got the slight buzzy tone back, which I think is good. It sounds leaner again too...

Dammit OMC what do you put in your TC-W3???????
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:20 AM   #33
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I'm wondering if this wasn't such a great idea, for city driving at least. I know its only been 3 days, and I've only gone 17 miles since my fillup, but the needle is already pulling off of full. I haven't used the a/c at all on this tank. Maybe I had a short fill. I guess I'll have to run this tank out and see. My ScanGauge should be here soon, I'll be able to tell more of what's going on once I get that installed.

-Jay
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:25 AM   #34
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Yup sorry Jay, I think methanol on it's own isn't doing it, it's something in combo with that TC-W3 2 stroke outboard oil, which didn't do much on it's own.

This tank with the 1oz of TC-W3 and 16oz methanol is looking GREAT so far, if I trusted my gas gauge I'd say it was on track for bettering that first run of methanol, but it might be anywhere from 25 to 30 on the high end.
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:03 AM   #35
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I might have to agree that the menthanol has some affect on a trip...more constant throttle stuff. Seems like more in town stuff I did, mileage was normal.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:07 AM   #36
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Yup sorry Jay, I think methanol on it's own isn't doing it, it's something in combo with that TC-W3 2 stroke outboard oil, which didn't do much on it's own.

This tank with the 1oz of TC-W3 and 16oz methanol is looking GREAT so far, if I trusted my gas gauge I'd say it was on track for bettering that first run of methanol, but it might be anywhere from 25 to 30 on the high end.
That's ok. We're here to experiment and learn. I mostly do short trip city driving anyway so I wasn't expecting much. I do notice that my oil pressure seems to run about 5 PSI higher. I haven't noticed any temp differences. Its nice to compare what something does in different vehicles, and it only cost me $1.60. Two cycle engine oil... I've never heard of the type you're referring to. Is it something I can pick up at Wal-Mart or an auto parts store, or do I have to go someplace special? Do you think there are any long term effects of running 2 cycle oil like fowling of plugs, O2 sensor, Cat converter?

-Jay
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:12 AM   #37
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Outboard oil in particular is supposed to be ashless and cat safe, it's high quality stuff for those big expensive outboards. Lawnmower etc 2 stroke oil is only "low ash" and is formulated "messier" for these low quality small motors.
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:24 AM   #38
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Well, the results are in (somewhat). I know I did a short fill, but I wanted to get a jump on getting my new ScanGauge calibrated. The tank was 100% city driving with no A/C usage and my mileage was just over 10 MPG. Quite possibly the worst mileage I have ever done in the Beast. I may explore the possibility of mixing methanol with the outboard oil later, or on a highway run. In city driving it actually makes my mileage drop signifigantly.

-Jay
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:18 PM   #39
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Whew, got it headed the right way again at least...
24.7mpg... yeah I was shooting for 27 again this tank... but on my LAST trip on the tank, I got stuck in a 1 hour holdup where they closed the highway down to one lane on a friday afternoon. Freaking ridiculous time to mess around with that. I swear I burned a gallon or more in that stupidity... I was over the quarter mark at the start of the trip straight 25 mile burn and return. Enough over the quarter I thought, to get back with it dead on or only slightly under, for around a 12.75-13G fill, but no-oooooooo... ended up with it at about an 1/8th.

Anyway, I guess it's good enough to show that at least methanol+ the outboard oil is not dinging mileage, whereas the methanol on it's own really seemed to.

So the methanol by itself seems to make the O2 read lean I suspect, meaning the ECU hoses in the fuel more... Still figuring that one out....
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:23 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by RoadWarrior View Post
Whew, got it headed the right way again at least...
24.7mpg... yeah I was shooting for 27 again this tank... but on my LAST trip on the tank, I got stuck in a 1 hour holdup where they closed the highway down to one lane on a friday afternoon. Freaking ridiculous time to mess around with that. I swear I burned a gallon or more in that stupidity... I was over the quarter mark at the start of the trip straight 25 mile burn and return. Enough over the quarter I thought, to get back with it dead on or only slightly under, for around a 12.75-13G fill, but no-oooooooo... ended up with it at about an 1/8th.

Anyway, I guess it's good enough to show that at least methanol+ the outboard oil is not dinging mileage, whereas the methanol on it's own really seemed to.

So the methanol by itself seems to make the O2 read lean I suspect, meaning the ECU hoses in the fuel more... Still figuring that one out....
Since you're back up there, it looks like the oil + Methanol works for highway driving. I'd be curious if it works in city driving as well, since that's the bulk of my driving.

-Jay
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