Methanol + E10 + SEFI/MPFI = mpg gain? - Page 6 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 08-01-2008, 02:36 PM   #51
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Okay we'll say 1/20 (.05) to 1/12 (.083) of an ounce of TC-W3 outboard oil per gallon, with 3/4 to 1 1/2 oz of methanol per gallon appears to be the range within which it seems to be working in this fuel which has ethanol, but unsure of exact percentage, may be 5% may be 10%. The upper end of the range may be best to start with if you've got "guaranteed" E10. The isopropyl alcohol is optional at 1/4 an ounce a gallon and added because Marvin seems to have hot start issues (With or without additives) which it improves. I may not actually need that now since I discovered the fault in the evap, which might have been letting pure fuel vapor in the motor when cranking, hence rich start type symptoms.

So that's 1/2 to 3/4 an ounce of TC-W3 per 10G, and 7.5 - 15 oz of methanol for 10G with 2 or 3oz per 10G of IPA optional.

Effects seem to be more noticable when the air temperature is over about 25C or 77F so a "warm air intake" may show additional gains. Also seems to take about 1/4 to 1/3 of the gauge on my temp gauge to start working. Evaporating methanol is known to chill the intake charge quite a bit, which is why drag racers use it, which I guess is why air temp is a factor, still needs to leave things warm enough to react.
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:53 AM   #52
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23.77 today, on a high city miles tank, 65%, knew this weekend was gonna be a killer for that, oh well. Hoping to fill Friday to get a high highway miles tank to see how it's doing there.

Can't really see good tanks for comparison in my log, with such high city miles, looks like it might be 1mpg up over non-additive high city tanks.
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:37 PM   #53
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Still didn't get my "perfect" tank, but a 25.22 was okay and pulled my 90 day average up over 24 mpg , w00t!

Some figgerin'
Average of 1st 10 tanks logged, no additives 22.74
Average of all "pre methanol" tanks 23.19 includes tanks with other additives.
Average of all methanol tanks. 24.34
Average of all Methanol + TC-W3 tanks 24.90

Percentage gain, all methanol tanks from all "pre-methanol" tanks. 1.15 mpg gain 5%
Percentage gain, all methanol + TC-W3 tanks from all "pre-methanol" tanks. 1.7 mpg gain 7%
Percentage gain, all methanol + TC-W3 tanks from first 10 additive free tanks logged. 2.16 mpg gain 9.5%

Note that methanol only tanks with no TC-W3 were either no gain or slight loss, hard to tell significance on 2 tanks, since they weren't any lower than worst other tanks.

Just for the hell of it, if we delete that last "sucky 65% city" tank as atypical, and unrepresentative of "normal " driving patterns, the average for TC-W3 + methanol goes to 25.02, meaning a gain of 2.27 mpg over 1st 10, or a solid 10%.

Still no other mods or testing different driving strategies yet, should get on that real soon now...
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:35 AM   #54
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I used up my gallon of hardware store "Methyl Hydrate", so this current fill got the "Fondue Fuel" in it, I skipped TC-W3 this tank, mildly concerned about getting too much of a build up of it.

This stuff definitely seems to run a little different than the clear hardware store stuff. It's dyed blue, I have a strong suspicion that it's dyed with copper sulphate. I'm getting a faint "rotten eggs" whiff while driving around the city. However, walking around last night, I was catching faint "rotten eggs" whiffs from a large number of other cars. You usually expect to smell the odd brand new car, but there was definitely some couple of year old models that should have been over that stage, but not old enough that their cats should be failing yet. My cat is just coming up to 3 years old, and stunk for only the first month.

Anyway, finding that a little hard to figure, either we've been getting some sulpherous gas round here lately, or it's coincidence, or I've got raised sulfates in the exhaust from a few ppm copper sulfate...

Also trying to figure the exact mechanism for that. There's a touch of sulphur in the gas anyway, and the smell is taken as "new cat" or "failing cat" or "failing O2" sensor quite often. BUT why is that? It's taken as a sign of running too rich, or not scrubbing the HC well enough. However it appears to be a result of "not enough" NOx for the HC produced. The NOx is split into N and O and the O converts remaining HC and CO into CO2 and H2O.

So this could mean that everything is running perfect, but it's making less NOx, which you'd think would be a good thing, apart from it doesn't liberate the O2 to deal with the HC or the H2S which wouldn't normally be smelt when it's turned into sulfur dioxide or trioxide. (Which is still bad stuff)

So, if this is the case I might want to lean the motor to attempt to make more NOx, and let more O2 through, or the fuel trim just hasn't caught up with the "Fondue Fuel" being more efficient than the "Methyl Hydrate" and this will fix itself when I go up the highway on Monday.

Or the other other "problem" might be it's too lean, making too much HC, which leaves no O for treating H2S

Or it might be increased H2S if it's a result of the fondue fuel dye being copper sulphate.

So, I've got a bit of a quandary...
my vehicle is smelling slightly sulferous.
but other vehicles are also smelling slightly sulferous.
cause might be any of:
Increased local sulphur content in gas
FF affecting burn temp making less NOx
FF contains sulphate.
Fuel trim not adjusted yet, running slightly rich.
Problem with Cat
Problem with O2 sensor.
Also could be that I'm catching sulphur whiffs everywhere I go off other vehicles and mine is fine.

Trying to scheme up some tests to determine what the hell is in the Fondue Fuel for sure. Presence of a copper compound would have a highly catalytic effect, but extra sulphates are baaad mmmkay. Not entirely sure about the copper, on the one hand it is a soft metal and will act as an anti wear agent building up scuffed surfaces, on the other, it might very very slowly plate the O2 sensor and cat, it would actually keep the cat working due to being catalytic but is meant to favor the formation of cancerous dioxins (Although I don't fully understand that bit, coz the bad publicity seems to be about chlorinated dioxins and I can't see where the chlorine would come from )
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:36 PM   #55
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So that was another A, for ABA of with/without TC-W3 I guess, only pulled a 23.15, wasn't liking how it ran, felt like bad gas. No more rotten eggs smell, musta been picking it up off other vehicles, another gas station must have got a sulpherous batch in or something.

Wonder if I can draw any conclusions from it running a couple of mpg higher than the clear methanol did without any TC-W3 in it... we'll find out, added TC-W3 again this time. No IPA again, don't think I need it any more, must have been the evap glitching.

Something wierd with this stuff though, my gauge falls a lot quicker, I was tearing my hair out thinking I was only gonna get 20, the gauge was under the quarter enough that I expected to get another gallon and a half in. I think that was what the initial run of the "blue stuff" was like, gas gauge seemed to drop quick, but at fillup it took less.

I've got a suspicion that it's slightly electrically conductive or something and is messing with the sender unit. Have to keep an eye on that. Can't have the smurf pee messing up my sender.

Temps weren't all that good for this cocktail this last tank either. Kinda wondering if it would have done better on it's own but for that. Also been having a lot of "drop cogs and mash pedal" type merges lately, vehicles that slow down and lurk in my blind spot instead of just coming past and getting the hell out of the way are really annoying.
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I remember The RoadWarrior..To understand who he was, you have to go back to another time..the world was powered by the black fuel & the desert sprouted great cities..Gone now, swept away..two mighty warrior tribes went to war & touched off a blaze which engulfed them all. Without fuel, they were nothing..thundering machines sputtered & stopped..Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice
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