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Old 12-23-2008, 10:07 AM   #1
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Moist air intake idea

I was considering doing a Ron Novak style water injection system (which is really just moist air), but I don't like the idea of pulling more water in at idle than at speed. I have been thinking about ways to produce similar results on my normally aspirated, fuel injected car and I came up with the idea to use a pulse pump like you would find on a lawn mower to pump moist air into my intake. This should change flow rates with rpms. I have attached a picture of the theoretical setup. I dont have any parts yet, I just wanted some educated feedback on the principles.


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-Tony
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:07 PM   #2
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How about skipping the pump and use vacuum to suck in the moist air? I think it's called the "Bernoulli effect", it's when air travelling perpendicular to an open pipe end creates suction. If the effect is strong enough, it would pull more moist air when more air is going through the intake, and less at idle airflow levels.

I'd also use a baffle in the tank to cover the moist air intake line so hard stops, cornering, and bumps don't slosh raw liquid up the intake tube.

If the tank isn't generating enough moist air, maybe use some device to aerate or atomize the fluid, ie moist sponge, fish tank bubbler, small garden spray nozzle, and/or something to heat the fluid.

I also wonder if a water/alcohol mix would have the alcohol evaporate quicker, leaving a greater ratio of water in the tank as the fluid level goes down.
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:26 PM   #3
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the lawnmower pulse pump won't pull enough air to make the bubbler effective... it won't pick up much water. I agree with doing the above for all the stated reasons. in laymans terms, it's a water carburetor. I wonder if just sticking a plastic lawnmower carb (plastic wont corrode from water/alch) with the throttle plate removed in your cars intake would work or if you'd have to build it full-diameter into the intake tube.

I don't see much point to a 'moist' air intake unless you mean water injection which works best closer to the ports, cold, and well-misted for power (without loss of economy) and anti-detonation.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:24 PM   #4
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While the idea may be sound, I think a simple alcohol injection system would work many times better, even though the cost would be higher. A friend of mine had on installed on his supercharged miata. He used it all winter long, although it wasn't as necessary in the winter as summer. I believe the cost was around $100, for a kit designed for the miata. I'm sure you can find a universal kit for less, or the parts for less at a junkyard.

Rear wiper tank (they're smaller), high pressure low volume pump (wiper pumps work well), the plumbing from under any car's hood, and the correct injector with electrical hookups. I'd bet I could build one for under $30.


aaand on a crazy note, I suggested to some guests having Christmas in the hotel lobby to use the lobby tv to play guitar hero. AWESOME. My job rocks. haha good one!
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:07 AM   #5
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First off, I guess everyone needs to read the same article to know why I suggested the idea. Ron Novak ran atomized water vapor into a carbureted Honda to see a 6% mpg increase as shown here: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...earth/me3.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRW
How about skipping the pump and use vacuum to suck in the moist air? I think it's called the "Bernoulli effect"
I am afraid that the Bernoulli effect would not create enough vacuum to pull air down the bubbler tube against the water pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRW
I'd also use a baffle in the tank to cover the moist air intake line so hard stops, cornering, and bumps don't slosh raw liquid up the intake tube.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRW
If the tank isn't generating enough moist air, maybe use some device to aerate or atomize the fluid, ie moist sponge, fish tank bubbler, small garden spray nozzle, and/or something to heat the fluid.
That's why I was having the fresh air drawn in through a bubbler stone at the bottom of the tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRW
I also wonder if a water/alcohol mix would have the alcohol evaporate quicker, leaving a greater ratio of water in the tank as the fluid level goes down.
I think the bubbler would effectively keep the mix homogeneous except when the car is parked with the engine off, so initial startup might be more alcohol vapor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamesama980
the lawnmower pulse pump won't pull enough air to make the bubbler effective... it won't pick up much water. I agree with doing the above for all the stated reasons. in laymans terms, it's a water carburetor. I wonder if just sticking a plastic lawnmower carb (plastic wont corrode from water/alch) with the throttle plate removed in your cars intake would work or if you'd have to build it full-diameter into the intake tube.
I am not trying to draw in liquid water with the pump, it would only be moving evaporated water (moist air). As the pump pulls air from above the water in the tank, the drop in pressure would pull air down the bubbler tube and atomize a little more water

And I am not really looking for water injection per say, but I am looking to make the car see more humid air all the time because it runs better and gets better mileage when the humidity is up.

I have changed the pistons in my car to run higher compression than stock (from 9:1 to 10:1) and it occasioanly starts to detonate on 87 octane without a WAI. Running the water vapor should theroetically help clean carbon from my combustion chamber to reduce the likelihood of detonation and the vapor itself should reduce the chance of detonation by absorbing some of the thermal energy that would have gone into the metal. By reducing the detonation, I can maintain advanced timing and hopefully be able to run a WAI off the exhaust manifold to improve mileage further.

I don't know if my logic is 100% but I wanted to explain myself anyway. Keep the feedback coming.
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