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Old 03-29-2008, 06:57 PM   #11
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Yea supposedly the PWM creates brown's gas while straight regular electrolysis makes H2 + O2. Browns Grass Has single H (monatomic) vs the H2 Hydrogen gas (Diatomic).

I think i got that right correct me if im wrong lol. But One form explodes while the other implodes. One has very fine bubles while the other has bigger ones.

I had bad luck with straight electrolysis because I had a jar of red/brown mud after a week. PWM is supposed to cut that down to 6 months.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:41 PM   #12
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Yea supposedly the PWM creates brown's gas while straight regular electrolysis makes H2 + O2. Browns Grass Has single H (monatomic) vs the H2 Hydrogen gas (Diatomic).

I think i got that right correct me if im wrong lol. But One form explodes while the other implodes. One has very fine bubles while the other has bigger ones.

I had bad luck with straight electrolysis because I had a jar of red/brown mud after a week. PWM is supposed to cut that down to 6 months.

Suggestions on how to do PWM cheapest and most effectively?

Thanks
-Nate
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Old 03-29-2008, 08:50 PM   #13
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I tried building my own from this site
http://electronic-light.com/advan.html

Somehow I messed up & the guy is looking it over for me.
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:11 AM   #14
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ProtonXX -

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I tried building my own from this site
http://electronic-light.com/advan.html

Somehow I messed up & the guy is looking it over for me.
Hmmmmmmmmm. I actually have a variable DC Motor Controller Kit from Ramsey Electronics :

MSC1C - DC Motor Speed Control Kit - $34.95
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi...tion&key=MSC1C

Quote:
* Real pulse width modulation for accurate, stable motor control
* Controls DC motors from 3 to 50 volts - up to 10 Amps!

You see, controlling a DC motor's speed is not as easy as varying its supply voltage. The motor loses torque (power) as the voltage is lowered and finally stops rotating. The MSC1 uses a technique known as "Pulse Width Modulation" - PWM - to control speed. This is the same system used on electric cranes, buses and subway cars. With PWM, the motor receives full voltage whenever energized - however, the duration of the voltage changes; it's sort of like flipping an on/off switch very rapidly! The motor rotates smoothly and with full power - no matter what the speed. The MSC1 will control DC motors from 3 to 50 volts at up to 10 amps! Complete instructions detail how the PWM circuitry operates and some hook-up ideas. Assembly takes only an hour or two. Kit operates on 9 to 12 VDC and controls motor supply of 3 to 50 volts. Includes our custom case set measuring 5"W x 11/2"H x 51/4"D.
I wonder if this would work for me. I have been thinking lately that I *want* 10 Amps or less. Curiouser and curiouser ....

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Old 03-30-2008, 06:51 AM   #15
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Yeah that PMW motor controller looks like it should work just watch out for the peak current flow not the average since the pass transistor is going to pop if too much current flows through it. I just think however that lower resistance and lower voltage would be better since it is the current (the flow of electrons) that separates the water into H and O and having higher voltage than the few volts it takes just makes more heat. Another way to use 12 volts directly is to setup 3 or 4 cells in series in separate containers dividing the voltage between them all.

I don't know about the mon-atomic Hydrogen - but taller plates in a taller container would produce more gas and electrolite flow vertically helping to knock off the gas bubbles as they rise to the top and may end up producing quite a circulating flow knocking all the bubbles loose from top to bottom.
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:30 PM   #16
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Thought I'd run through some numbers...

Recorded MPGs
Low- 19.7
High- 22.3
Average- 21

A few days ago my gas light went on and I reset my trip-meter. 20 miles later I filled up:

$19.17 @ $3.499/gal = 5.4787082 gals

My trip-meter was @ 159.8 when my gas light went off.

159.8M / 5.4787082 gals = 29.17 MPG

Unless I've figured incorrectly that leaves me with a MPG gain of over 8 MPG over my previous average.

More interesting is that I've only had my HHO Generator running for the past 50 or so miles.

I'll be able to do much more defined tests as soon as I get some more gas $$, but as of now, I'm pretty impressed.


**Other Calculations
50 miles with HHO generator
159.8 - 50 = 109.8 miles without HHO.

109.8 M @ 21MPG (avg without HHO) = 5.22857143 Gal

5.4787082 gal put in initially
5.4787082 - 5.22857143 = 0.25013677 gals while running HHO

50 miles running HHO with 0.25013677 Gals = 199.890644 MPG (obviously there must be some margin error in this math, but the point is that there's the potential for a GREAT increase.)
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:36 AM   #17
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Thought I'd run through some numbers...

Recorded MPGs
Low- 19.7
High- 22.3
Average- 21

159.8M / 5.4787082 gals = 29.17 MPG

Unless I've figured incorrectly that leaves me with a MPG gain of over 8 MPG over my previous average.

More interesting is that I've only had my HHO Generator running for the past 50 or so miles.
Try to use full tank mpg readings? Better yet a 3 tank avg removes the short fill inaccuracies.

Sounds like a good start though. Just hope your nasty old ECU doesn't catch on to what you are doing.
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Old 04-03-2008, 12:04 PM   #18
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Try to use full tank mpg readings? Better yet a 3 tank avg removes the short fill inaccuracies.

Sounds like a good start though. Just hope your nasty old ECU doesn't catch on to what you are doing.

lol Yes, I realize that's the best way to do it, but my car hasn't had a full tank of gas for months hahaha. sucks being in high school.
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Old 04-06-2008, 09:11 PM   #19
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nsrossman, have you experimented with different cell polarities? Right now you've got 6 cells, + - +- +- . How do you think + - - - - + Would do? Or even 7 cells with + - - + - - + ?

Also, how did you get those plates in the + - + - + - configuration? In the video you said that they are spaced apart with rubber grommets, so how do you make the connections to the inner plates?

Looking good, keep it up!
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Old 04-07-2008, 11:09 AM   #20
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No board yet but In the mean time I decided to get some KOH (Potasium Hydroxide).

Was looking at the smack cell videos & he claimed his cells went 2 months w/o cleaning with distilled water & KOH, Only a slight gold hue from impurities from building he claims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh0x-...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPGAK...eature=related

I used salt + water in my joe cell & also straight tap water. Also did +-+- Cell alignment with straight 12v. I had brown goop & melted fuses in a week .
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