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Old 04-07-2008, 12:12 PM   #21
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MoHHo- I hadn't previously thought about other configurations, but I'm sure the change would be simple enough. Right now I have two holes in each plate, one 1/2" and one 3/8". The rod is also 3/8" so each plate connects on that side. The other side is insulated with some homemade spacers so that the inner dimension is also 3/8". Then I switch the direction of each plate so that the side which is connected to the rod is different every other plate.
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Old 04-07-2008, 07:54 PM   #22
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I've got another problem for everyone out there in the forum world....

I've measured my resistance and, using distilled water and about 1/4tsp of salt, gotten it to a little over.6

12V/.6+ ohms = 20amps (or a bit below)

I set a block (that's what we've always called it in my area- basically a fuse but instead of popping it heats up, stops the current then allows it again later) this should break the connection @ 20amps. The first 5 minutes of running are fine, then it jumps over 20 amps and stays there most of the time.

I've tried lowering the salt even more so that its at about .8 resistance (thinking maybe the increased water temp has allowed for more current) but then I don't get nearly the productivity I previously did.

I'm up against a wall here guys and its really bugging me because I've spent so much time on my rig and built it to be so durable. (I'm figuring about $300 and 50 hrs worth of work have gone into this) I'm so close its just working out the bugs!!

Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!
-Nate
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:02 AM   #23
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I don't have an answer to your question, but I've got a quick question for you. Is your fuse inline with your positive or your negative lead?
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsgrossman View Post
I've tried lowering the salt even more so that its at about .8 resistance (thinking maybe the increased water temp has allowed for more current) but then I don't get nearly the productivity I previously did.
Temperature can supply part of the energy necessary for the electrolysis, something like 270ish joules required per mole total, and 40ish is supplied by normal ambient temperatures... so go over ambient and you get more help.

But you're thinking backwards on the resistance thing, resistance is current limiting in this instance, so increasing resistance will mean less current = less power = less heat.
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Old 04-08-2008, 06:35 AM   #25
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If you are inputting 12V...you should try setting the plates up as....

+ I I I -

...where the middle plates are neutral and you might see 3 V between plates.

This increases the cell efficiency and puts more of the current to work making gas rather than heat.

Might space the plates a little closer than 1/8th"?

But you will have some current bleed around.

Easiest would be to use baking soda...using just enough to have it draw maybe 6-8 amps cold and test it from there.


You have an ideal enclosure to eventually put a set of smackbooster plates in there...where you'd EXACTLY duplicate his most recent plate setup and use NaOH.

Need to monitor the cell temps and the amperage.
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Old 04-08-2008, 06:00 PM   #26
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You could try a different modulator to vary the frequency in order to keep the amps down. The "special priced" one on www.pwmpower.com has gotten me intrigued enough to purchase one. I'm going to see if I can get mine up and running within a month or so. If you wanna wait that long, I'll have some info for everyone, but I think these PWMs with gating and freq adjustments are pretty applicable to keeping your amperage where you want it. As far as the money goes...maybe you should apply for a grant...don't ask me how, but someone hasta wanna give kids like us a grant, right? ...probably not...sigh...
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:01 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ZugyNA View Post
If you are inputting 12V...you should try setting the plates up as....

+ I I I -

...where the middle plates are neutral and you might see 3 V between plates.

This increases the cell efficiency and puts more of the current to work making gas rather than heat.

Might space the plates a little closer than 1/8th"?

But you will have some current bleed around.

Easiest would be to use baking soda...using just enough to have it draw maybe 6-8 amps cold and test it from there.


You have an ideal enclosure to eventually put a set of smackbooster plates in there...where you'd EXACTLY duplicate his most recent plate setup and use NaOH.

Need to monitor the cell temps and the amperage.
Its funny you should mention the boosters, as I just recently found his page (even though I've been researching for months.) Smack basically has the exact same set up I do, only my plates are made out of a higher quality stainless. Recently I've ordered and received some sodium hydroxide (NaOH.) I thought the problem was that the salt was breaking down the plates, making the water they're in more electrolytic. However, I've filled my container with distilled water, then added small amounts (as small as 1/4 tsp) of NaOH, all of which show a resistance above my desired about, but my 40 amp fuse ALWAYS pops after about 5 mins.

Short Info-
about 1 liter distilled water
1/4 tsp NaOH
same setup mentioned earlier

Resistance- 1.2 ohms
Voltage- 12V

Calculated Draw= 10 amps

40 amp fuse breaks after 5 mins!!!!

I considered faulty wiring, fuses, and have narrowed it to either faulty equipment (voltage/resistance tester) or some other series of events I'm unaware of?

Readings seem about right, fuse breaks, and its not the wiring....IDK!!!!

Please help!

-Nate
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:36 PM   #28
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsgrossman View Post

Resistance- 1.2 ohms
Voltage- 12V

Calculated Draw= 10 amps

40 amp fuse breaks after 5 mins!!!!

-Nate
It is not possible to calculate the current by standard resistance measurements. HHO cells act sort of like capacitors. A special AC resistance measuring setup is used in electrolysis.

You might invest in a cheap digital multimeter. I have seen them from $7 to $14 (Walmart). I got one from Ace harware for $9.95. It has a 10 amp scale, but will read to 19.9 amps if you do it for a short time. I believe you will see the current rise higher as the cell is operated.

Hang in there. It sounds like you are on the right track.
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:47 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsgrossman View Post
However, I've filled my container with distilled water, then added small amounts (as small as 1/4 tsp) of NaOH, all of which show a resistance above my desired about, but my 40 amp fuse ALWAYS pops after about 5 mins. -Nate
I'd say you have a heat related SHORT...plates heat up...move...you get a short?

Depends on the start temp...but I get a rise in amps of maybe 50% or so after warm up.

I'd just measure amp draw and cell temps and let it go at that.


I've got 2 of these..both still work...paid $3-4...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92020


This works too...I paid $6...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93983


And maybe gas output? This is pretty high tech though...requires a 5 G bucket and a small clear bottle that will fit in it sideways. Not razzing you...just the people who never measure gas output.
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Old 04-12-2008, 02:54 PM   #30
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I remembered another cause of fuse problems I had on my gen. It was blowing 20 amp fuses at 8 amps. Turned out it was a faulty fuse holder. The problem went away after I replaced it. The new holder did not get hot. dissecting the old one told me nothing, but had a poor connection somehow.

On the subject of fuse holders, I lost power to my electric fan install. Seems the plastic in-line holders get soft. Next time around I will use the more modern fuses with spade terminals.
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