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Old 10-26-2008, 04:47 PM   #71
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some info

thought i would chime in with my results after months of testing. I am new to these boards and my knowledge spanning 5 completely different home built systems and months of testing might be of help to some prospective HHO builders.
My vehicle is a 1998 Subaru Outback Sport with a 2.2l boxer engine
My Car

my HHO device is comprised of 13 3.5" by 7" plates wired (-)NNNNN(+)NNNNN(-) in nearly a half gallon 7/16" thick glass container with a teaspoon of naoh
HHO Container External View
HHO Internals

My system is wired in 10 guage wire through a 30 amp fuse, a 30 amp relay an ammeter, a stock 15amp (running lights always on) switch. It feeds the engine through a vaccum line on the intake manifold
Dashboard with switch and ammeter

My subaru without the system has never gained more than 25mpg and under normal driving conditions typically gets 24mpg.
With the system it put out 34mpg avg daily driving on 7 straight tests, and a 37mpg highway rating starting at 10 amp draw and increasing to 28 amp draw over the course of a 2 hour road trip on 2 tests. The system gives a substantial increase in throttle response that can be felt immediately.

I have checked my spark plugs and will say that the burn rate of the plugs appears to be ideal
Spark Plugs

I have had a water4gas spiral glass jar system, a stacked 7 plate lowes electrical plate system, a plexiglass 10 plate 5 baffled chamber -N NN NN NN N+ system, a 10 plate -NNNNNNNN+ with 1/8" spacers and now my 13 plate system.

A PWM controller is on order, not for its potential for greater mpg, but for its ability to control maximum amperage draw seeing that the system will increase amp draw as it heats up

I am from the bay area california and on a recent trip up to tahoe i tracked my subaru with 3 passengers geared for snowboarding with 3 boards on the rack and an 80mph romp up from 0 elevation to 6000 ft at 23mpg...thats approximately 600 pounds of extra weight and some wind drag, floored, up hill in windy conditions and I am thrilled!! b/c going up to the snow was the reason for the install

Things to know:
if you're blowing fuses try adding some neutral in close proximity to your anode and cathode, water is a semi conductor, it will conduct through your neutral plates producing hydrogen and at the same time lowering your amperage draw.

Balance your system, more neutral plates may require more electrolyte

scratching up your plates gives more surface area and promotes better flow

wire in a ammeter, kill switch, and pwm, will give you that "factory installed" feel of control and reliability

I am a dyi-er with limited knowledge in chemistry and automotive electrical but was capable of building this system myself, so have a can-do attitude

Hope this helped some people
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:57 AM   #72
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great job! Good work documenting everything. I hope everything keeps up for you. Whats your epa mpg? Are you going to lean any fuel out? Just wondering. I really like your gauge setup on the column. Where did you get it?

Also, what kind of output are you getting from your cell?
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:00 PM   #73
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response

thanks Ven, epa is 23mpg(20 city, 27 highway), I wasn't planning on leaning the fuel until i really had everything fine tuned and settled. Thank you about the guage, i bought a cheap plastic guage pod for another vehicle, cut it off of its plastic housing, glued it to my OEM panel and than went to work with some bondo and a lot of patience, all in all it was not that difficult to do.

I have some recent discoveries:
i found out that my heater lines going into my firewall were up against my HHO container giving it a lot of extra heat and raising the amperage draw

I also discovered that my vacuum line was not as efficient as i was lead to believe, I decided to cap off a few unneccessary accessories and i tee'd off my HHO line, one line to the intake manifold and the other to a one direction pcv valve screwed into my intake right in front of my throttle body, i will post results when i get them but i will say throttle response seems to cary further into my RPM band
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:49 PM   #74
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PWM - Direct Current or Alternating Current?

Pulse Width Modulation is an AC freq variation based on square wave. DC can NOT produce PWM effect. You can "Pulse Time", meaning turn power on and off, using DC but that does NOT cause the same effect as PWM.

The closest you can get to PWM effect is to use a DC/AC modified-square wave power inverter. A pure square wave inverter is difficult to find because interferes with electronics including your car's ECU.

So what most people are usually calling as DC-based PWM is actually a "Pulse Timer". It turns on and off every T time, where T is a variable you can set.

You can actually buy a Pulse timer from Amazon.com for $10 here

http://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Timer-wi...233929&sr=8-16







Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtonXX View Post
I tried building my own from this site
http://electronic-light.com/advan.html

Somehow I messed up & the guy is looking it over for me.
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Old 11-08-2008, 10:11 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintmess@yahoo.com View Post
Pulse Width Modulation is an AC freq variation based on square wave. DC can NOT produce PWM effect. You can "Pulse Time", meaning turn power on and off, using DC but that does NOT cause the same effect as PWM.

The closest you can get to PWM effect is to use a DC/AC modified-square wave power inverter. A pure square wave inverter is difficult to find because interferes with electronics including your car's ECU.

So what most people are usually calling as DC-based PWM is actually a "Pulse Timer". It turns on and off every T time, where T is a variable you can set.

You can actually buy a Pulse timer from Amazon.com for $10 here

http://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Timer-wi...233929&sr=8-16
totally agree! pwm is another gimmick to get you to buy somthin...
along with o2 minipulators go straight to map/maf and your done...simple volume control knob from rad shck is what i use...without it you will get no gains!!
most altrntrs produce 110amps so my gen draws 28amps...not much different than turnin on the headlights or my 1200wt subs in the back ..

last thing is...there are doer's and there are procrastinators...either do or dont....if you do then u know for ur self if u dont then youll never know

anybody who says it dont work hasnt tried or works in the oil industry...
im in oklahoma and most everyone in my town works on a oil rig...they all are amazed at what im doing but hope it doesnt go far...im not selling anything..

this is not rocket science its so easy its stupid

use what you got (12v-13.8v) add as much as 30 amps (more amps more gas) achieve amps with mix (i use 3/4tsp ph+ for swim pool to distld h2o)

good luck ...drive it like you stole it!!
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Old 11-17-2008, 05:07 PM   #76
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Hello all - great forum, I just signed up

I am wondering what is the MAX liters per min I should consider using on my V8 chevy?

My HHO device will be finished this w/e and I am confident it will be capable of producing WAY more HHO than any other unit I have seen out there (I'll post the numbers and secrets if I am right LOL).

I know my V8 needs quite a bit and I have seen V8 units for sale in the .75 to 2.75 liter range.

Any input on when it becomes "too much"??
I don't wanna blow up my engine! LOL

Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:11 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearshredder View Post
dont be ****bags and argue against this.. start a anti-hydrogen thread if you feel so compelled to do so.
Great idea. I expect these types of posters to that thread...

1. those who have never tried it.
2. those that read somewhere that it doesn't work.
3. those who have not made the necessary tweaks to make it work on their car.
4. those who have interests in the petroleum industry.
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:20 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acetone marty View Post
...When i look at rowers post i see ethanol or e85, i dont mean to be ignorant rower when i say this but it looks like you run ethanol in your car now that is the biggest documented scam there has ever been. It is the worst fuel we could ever use it takes way more energy to make it than we will ever achieve in our motors, has lower btus than even propane,the mileage goes down...
I disagree. There is a valid reason for the lower MPG out of an engine running E85, gasoline. All E85 vehicles are 'flex fuel', meaning they have to run both gasoline and E85 on the same engine. If you were to build an engine tailored to take advantage of the 105 octane of E85 and then ran pump gasoline in it you would kill the engine before you even ran through your first tank and the infrastructure isn't there in most places to actually make E85 only vehicles. (Albuquerque only has one station for E85, if you don't count where the city gases up almost all of its fleet)

Have you ever looked at an engine that has run E85 its entire life? The engine is spotless inside, I've seen spark plugs come out of E85 engines that looked almost new except for a worn electrode. The oil stays clean much longer too.

I don't run E85 because like most non-flex fuel vehicles I'll get a code for the O2 reading excessively lean. I'm sure, however, that if I was to modify my engine for E85 only running I could get it pretty close to the mileage I get on gasoline with way more power on tap if I need it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:53 AM   #79
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Someone should ask this guy about HHO.
A 99 Corvette getting 73.58MPG with HHO:

http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/2310

Whether "HHO" is viable or not isn't my argument. I'd like to hear ANYONE who actually has it working and the results. Even a very small system that will gain you say 10% or better FE would be helpful... I'll re-read this thread when I get more time.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:42 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by 99metro View Post
Whether "HHO" is viable or not isn't my argument. I'd like to hear ANYONE who actually has it working and the results. Even a very small system that will gain you say 10% or better FE would be helpful... I'll re-read this thread when I get more time.
That gets asked for countless times but nobody can give us any real evidence. They just want to sell us a unit and call it done.
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