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Old 06-11-2008, 10:52 AM   #91
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I once had a vehicle with a terrible odor problem. After trying various things that didn't help, I found something that did: http://www.topoftheline.com/odbomairvens.html

Cheap, fast, easy, effective.

I know this sounds like a commercial, but I'm really just a happy customer.
well the only thing about using an odor remover is it may help alleviate the moldy smell, but the smell is still a symptom and doesn't cure the actual problem: mold spores. spores release toxins, are not destroyed by spraying lysol on them (the mold organism itself is killed, but the spores stay around for ages), and will still be there to make a mold sensitive person sick. same thing goes for Febreze or any other product.

if you're not mold sensitive then you may do fine driving around in a molded car w/o a musty odor, but lingering spores are still bad news and can slowly tear away at a healthy person's immune system and eventually make them sick or present other health problems.

only way around it i see is a total strip down of the interior that includes removing dash and scrubbing down every nook and cranny ordinarily unreachable, heater box, vent ducts, etc. i'd just rather find a car that was well taken care of than to go to all of that total strip down trouble.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:04 AM   #92
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Yeah I've never had that problem.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:15 AM   #93
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tapedshoes: I'm interpreting your request to mean that you would like to see my O2 Feedback Target AFR Table. My raw pulse-width table is so application-specific that it wouldn't be much use even if you had my same motor.

My O2 Target Table isn't quite perfect; it may never be. I make changes to it all the time. But it's far more advanced than any stock calibration (except maybe the federal P07 map?). It's important to note that the load values will vary from one car to the next, even very similar cars.

For each car, you need to map out the VE table. Fuel and Ignition will follow the VE table.




this is EXCELLENT! just what I was looking for. Megasquirt EFI has a similiar table, but not as much resolution. Looks like you have a 17x21 table, megasquirt is limited to 8x8 (on the AFR table) and 12x12 on the VE and spark advance tables. The bottom (X) axis is RPM.

The only problem I have interpreting this is what the left (Y) axis is. In megasquirt, air is metered via a MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor, and displayed in KPA. As a rough guide, 0=engine off, 20=engine braking, 40-60=cruise, 60-80=uphill acceleration, and anything above that is hard acceleration (up to 100kpa, open atmosphere, higher with boost). The second graphic allows me to understand where the various points are.

Very nice, thank you very much.

Do you have any plans for singh grooves, or powre lynz? On my volvo, i plan on 11.5:1 compression, powre lynz and powre intake valves, singh grooves, larger exhaust valves, and Coil on Plug ignition. Hoping for 35 MPG on a 2900 pound car, out of a 2.1 SOHC engine. Again, thank you.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:16 PM   #94
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the only thing about using an odor remover is it may help alleviate the moldy smell, but the smell is still a symptom and doesn't cure the actual problem: mold spores
I realize that mold is bad stuff, and I'm not sure the odor bomb product kills mold. It might. But it's definitely not something that just masks odor. It works at a molecular level; it somehow bonds with the substance that's producing the odor, and turns it into a different molecule that has no odor. It works when the source of the odor is organic in nature, like rotten food. Anyway, in my situation it worked like a charm, so I figure it's worth a try. Definitely a lot easier than dismantling lots of parts.

Something similar is an ozone generator. They're not as cheap, but they can be rented.
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:32 PM   #95
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This is too funny. The EMS allows you to change what kind of units you like to view things with. I normally view my units in kPa because it's a very easy conversion to mmHg so I figured it would be more useful. But then I was told most tuners prefer PSI. Anyway, here it is in kPa.

** I should mention that no "normal engine" can run this lean. Most engines are designed in such a way that they can't run leaner than 16:1 w/out lean misfires. VTEC-E engines are an exception.


I'm using the built in VTEC controls to control the VTEC-E. The VTEC controls are quite sophisticated with lots of hysterisis.


Then I'm controlling VTEC with the Option Output. There's no hysterisis unfortunately, but it's not that critical since I'm usually at WOT at this point anyway. Alternatively I could use the N20 controls which have a lot of hysterisis, but I wasn't able to get them working for some reason.

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Do you have any plans for singh grooves, or powre lynz?
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about except for COP which I already have. If I had money, I would drive the car to Fort Worth and have Endyn rebuild the engine with his roller wave pistons. That would boost compression up around 13:1 and still run fine with 91 octane.

Roller Wave Pistons

I'd also have him modify the oil pump and do some head work. All of this is guaranteed to increase power as well as FE. I'm making good money now but it will take me a year or two to pay off my credit cards.

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Originally Posted by tapedshoes View Post
The only problem I have interpreting this is what the left (Y) axis is. In megasquirt, air is metered via a MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor, and displayed in KPA. As a rough guide, 0=engine off, 20=engine braking, 40-60=cruise, 60-80=uphill acceleration, and anything above that is hard acceleration (up to 100kpa, open atmosphere, higher with boost).
All of these numbers are in line with what I've seen on my motor. Freeway cruising is 55kPa. City cruising is 35kPa. Normal Idle is right around 20kPa, but if the headlights, brakes, and radiator fan are on the load goes into the next cell. I can't imagine getting the car to run right with any less resolution. The difference in load between cruising on a level surface and cruising on a gentle incline is so small. Less resolution would force you to use the same cell, and hence the same afr and ignition timing for both conditions. That would cost you in FE and driveability.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:50 PM   #96
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All of these numbers are in line with what I've seen on my motor. Freeway cruising is 55kPa. City cruising is 35kPa. Normal Idle is right around 20kPa, but if the headlights, brakes, and radiator fan are on the load goes into the next cell. I can't imagine getting the car to run right with any less resolution. The difference in load between cruising on a level surface and cruising on a gentle incline is so small. Less resolution would force you to use the same cell, and hence the same afr and ignition timing for both conditions. That would cost you in FE and driveability.
I'm not very familiar with the AEM EMS, but doesn't it extrapolate a value if the motor is running in between two cells? That's how my stock ecu works.
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:31 AM   #97
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I'm not very familiar with the AEM EMS, but doesn't it extrapolate a value if the motor is running in between two cells? That's how my stock ecu works.
It's actually interpolate, but not like it matters too much. Anyways don't all ECUs do this on some sort of scale? How would the AEM EMS be any different? I mean after all, what's the point of all that processing power if it isn't going to be doing such things?
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:11 AM   #98
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Interpolation and Resolution

All ECU's do that because that is part of the math of running an engine. There have to be very smooth transitions from one cell to another, especially with ignition timing; otherwise you'll feel rough spots, cutting out, and stumbling.

I have to ask; what would the alternative to interpolation be? Stay one value until load and RPM change enough that they round you into the next cell? A standalone that did that would be junk.

More resolution allows you to closely follow the VE table. All engines have their peculiar dips and surges in air flow. All VTEC motors have a dip in VE right before the VTEC crossover, then a very sudden surge. VTEC-E is no exception. You need to bend the fuel and ignition graph around these points. This results in better power, mileage, and drive-ability that you can feel and measure.

You can imagine tuning like stretching a cover over a bumpy surface. The surface is the airflow into the engine across different RPM and load. The stiffness of the cover is your resolution. Low resolution is like trying to lay down sheet metal. High resolution is like laying down a silk blanket.

At Idle, where a very small change in load and RPM is a very big change in the amount of air entering the engine, high resolution is absolutely critical to get it to idle smooth, to settle in without stalling after decelerating, to cope with changes in load ie headlights, radiator fan, blower motor. Each of these conditions should put you in a neighboring cell so you can have a different pulse-width and ignition timing advance.

With low resolution you encounter many areas of the calibration where one cell is doing double duty for two different conditions. This is extremely annoying. You tune the car to the perfect AFR while driving uphill. Then it levels out and you find that you are running very rich. You lean it out, then you start climbing another hill and the engine starts bucking from lean misfires. You smack your forehead realizing you keep changing the same cells and you are forced to compromise (always on the rich side).
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:22 PM   #99
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Ah, I see what you're saying. The ecu can calculate and use values between cells, but you can only program individual cells.

Is there anyway to change the scaling on the AEM so it has finer resolution at low rpm and low loads? I would think this would be desireable since I've seen this sort of scaling applied to a few tables in my ecu. It seems to work well.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:38 AM   #100
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Is there anyway to change the scaling on the AEM so it has finer resolution at low rpm and low loads? I would think this would be desireable since I've seen this sort of scaling applied to a few tables in my ecu. It seems to work well.
Of course you can. My calibration wouldn't accommodate a turbocharger without adjusting some of the load rows to extend into positive PSI. You can make non linear adjustments to the scaling ie clustering a lot of cells around idle, but it's not necessary since the AEM has a lot of separate 2 dimensional tables for idle ie the Ignition vs Idle Target RPM, Fuel vs Idle Target RPM, etc.
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