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Old 06-19-2007, 07:41 PM   #21
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Definitely...
Sorry Bill. I just made three grooves like the one on Somender's site. I put the head back on without any pictures. I will try to document the Saturn better.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:49 PM   #22
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LOL
its comming off if it comes into my hands!
You make me crack up! I'll chuckle about this for a while.

It is kinda annoying to add more parts to break.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:50 PM   #23
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No prob. My attention span at work was too short to poke around much at Singh's site, so I just wanted a visual if you had it. Sounds really interesting.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:16 AM   #24
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I'm curious to see if this works, but not curious enough to want to hack up my cylinder head. Though I didn't look through the entire site so maybe it is there, what I didn't find was direct test data showing before and after comparisons of a few different engine designs with dyno, exhaust gas temp, and emissions results. Without that I'm skeptical that it is similar to the 100mpg carburators and the like.

I also believe that combustion chamber design is alot more complicated to think that a few grooves can make that significant of a difference. And if they did, their location, depth, and angle would be critical to make it work. You would be increasing the surface area, decreasing the compression ratio, reducing the squish band area and possibly causing turbulance in the flame front that is detrimental to combustion.

But with that I am willing to have my skepticism proven wrong.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:15 PM   #25
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lol sometimes i wonder about these backyard "scientists" that are doing stuf fliek this. you would think car companies that were looking to build a cheap high MPG car would just test stuff like this if it is as easy as making a few grooves....
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:06 PM   #26
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lol sometimes i wonder about these backyard "scientists" that are doing stuf fliek this. you would think car companies that were looking to build a cheap high MPG car would just test stuff like this if it is as easy as making a few grooves....
It's patented.

Here is my thread: http://somender-singh.com/component/...d,351/catid,2/
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:08 PM   #27
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I also believe that combustion chamber design is alot more complicated to think that a few grooves can make that significant of a difference. And if they did, their location, depth, and angle would be critical to make it work. You would be increasing the surface area, decreasing the compression ratio, reducing the squish band area and possibly causing turbulance in the flame front that is detrimental to combustion.
Those are exactly my thoughts as well. The CR should be lowered a bit rather than raised, and the dimensions should matter a LOT.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:34 AM   #28
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Well I hope to make a valid before and after comparison with my Saturn. The scan gauge has repeatedly shown 55-58 mpg at 60 mph steady state in the most recent configuration. This is at about 205 wt and 195 IAT deg F. Does anyone have any suggestions on what they would like to see?

Here are some pics of the plugs after a recent run including about 20 miles at 60 mph. The last 15 miles was P&G with some EOC. The EOC seems to lead to some soot at restarts. I also speculate that the richness of the restarts may be leading to some long term fuel trim to the leaner side of things. Maybe it jsut runs lean at the warm temperatures. I will be surprised if the Somender grooves clean the plugs up very much. The plug on the left and in the close ups is about as clean as a plug can run. The dark background brightened it up a bit in the last picture.

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs116&d=07250&f=fourplug.JPG

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs116&d=07250&f=cleanplug.JPG

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs116&d=07250&f=closeplug.JPG
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:53 AM   #29
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I am going to do it. It is going to be a month or so before I get to it.

I should have mentioned that the second hand lawn mower engine oil does not darken a white paper after a half season of use. It is as clean as the day it was changed.
Could you post a pic of that grooving job? Did you try leaving the head gasket off to increase the compression? I'm assuming an old B&S engine.
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:05 AM   #30
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I've skimed thru his patent a few years back, and it really is a simple idea, and I've read about auto makers trying to find a way to basicly use his idea without paying, after all if you look at his site he asks if you would be willing to pay $1,200 a year for a license to groove heads, so if you are a mecanic who wants to groove a few heads a month, and have to pay $1,200 a year, how much is he going to want you to pay if you are an auto maker groving 10's of thousands of heads a year?
so far I haven't heard of anyone prooving that grooves like this don't work.
I'm temped to do this to my moped, as it has poor low end power, and a pretty stable top speed, so any gain should be noticed, right?
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