The engine's response to HHO injection - Page 3 - Fuelly Forums

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Old 05-15-2008, 06:20 PM   #21
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I'm thinking about it on the basis that the HHO promotes more efficient combustion of the mixture, and more efficient transfer of heat energy to the piston, due to extra steam in the chamber making more pressure.

MIT did a study about H2 increasing combustion efficiency, google "plasmatron" to find details.

Also the extra fuel consumption presumed necessary to produce the H2 (and remember the O2 ain't getting thrown out) may be less than simplistically thought due to Brake Specific Fuel Consumption dropping with load in most motors, i.e. if highway cruising at 25% load, needing about 20HP you might be using .7lb bhp/hr, but bringing that load up to 25 HP by maxing out your alternator, might bring BSFC down by a point, so instead of using .7x20 you're using .6x25 which is a gain of only 1 lb per hour, instead of the 3.5lb an hour you might think... so you only have to make enough H2 to replace 1lb of gasoline to break even. So, do better than 30% efficiency in conversion and you start to get ahead. Then figures for gasoline engine efficiency being about 25% are for gasoline... H2 makes better cylinder pressure... an IC engine on H2 is said to be as efficient as the highest efficiency diesel engines, so we might figure about 50% efficient. So now really you only need the equivalent of 0.5lb gasoline worth of H2 to replace that extra 1lb you're burning... This is all completely ignoring the efficiency boost that the H2 and O2 would have on the combustion characteristics of gasoline......
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:40 PM   #22
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Interesting graph here...
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/tr...en_engine.html

It makes it appear that the limiting factor in getting better than 50% efficiency in a pure hydrogen motor is that it expands too damn fast, i.e. it exceeds the mechanical ability of reciprocating pistons to capture that power....

Ergo it would appear that H2 when moderated by a gasoline mixture i.e. as a small portion of it, would be capable of putting much more than 50% of it's energy to the crank...
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by RoadWarrior View Post
Interesting graph here...
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/tr...en_engine.html

It makes it appear that the limiting factor in getting better than 50% efficiency in a pure hydrogen motor is that it expands too damn fast, i.e. it exceeds the mechanical ability of reciprocating pistons to capture that power....

Ergo it would appear that H2 when moderated by a gasoline mixture i.e. as a small portion of it, would be capable of putting much more than 50% of it's energy to the crank...
Hmm..interesting. I wonder how it would behave with propane or ethanol? They burn cooler and cost less...
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Old 05-17-2008, 01:27 AM   #24
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adjusting air fuel mixture

products are marketed as to help adjust your air/fuel ratio and get more efficiency from your HHO generator:

http://www.protiumfuelsystems.com/optimizer.html

The Optimizer (also known as a dual edge map sensor enhancer) gives you full control of the air/fuel mixture on any fuel injected engine* by attenuating the analog signal of either the MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor or the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor. This allows you to increase your fuel economy while tailoring the settings to work with your driving habits and horsepower needs.

Most newer vehicles only need one adjustable parameter, however, the Optimizer is designed with two identical adjustment circuits giving you the ability to fine tune for low speeds under 40 MPH ('city') and a fine tuning for higher speeds ('Highway'). Plus, the control console can return your vehicle to it's normal operation or set for 'Performance' when extra horsepower is needed under a heavy load.


here's another one:

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/store/

The purpose of this site is to bring to you gas savers that really work, thus saving you money, increasing the performance of your car, and making your car more environmentally friendly. Our current product line is limited to EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancment) devices.
================================================== =

I am planning on installing my own HHO generator and have ordered the Protium engine optimizer. Don't know if it'll work but what the heck...won't know until I actually try it.

I am not affiliated with any of the above websites.
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:39 AM   #25
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A post I made in another thread, probably more relevant to this discussion though...
http://www.gassavers.org/showpost.ph...87&postcount=6
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Old 05-21-2008, 04:28 AM   #26
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I've finally seen a full tank mpg gain of maybe 7-10% with my DIY HHO device installed in a 1.5L Toyota. Only runs at 3 to 5 amps right now.

Can see it here:

http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Ot...rojects/fixaze

notice....2 pages here
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:37 AM   #27
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Is the gain in comparison to winter driving?

I am very interested to see some well validated results. Frankly, the cost of materials is so minimal that even a 2-3% gain might make something like this worth the effort.
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:48 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civic_matic_00 View Post
I am planning on installing my own HHO generator and have ordered the Protium engine optimizer. Don't know if it'll work but what the heck...won't know until I actually try it.
I noticed Protium has "Oxyisolators" which are just spacers ($5 from auto parts store). How is this better than an EFIE system?
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipjumper View Post
I noticed Protium has "Oxyisolators" which are just spacers ($5 from auto parts store). How is this better than an EFIE system?
from what I've read, it isn't better than an EFIE system but it allows the engine to run leaner since the O2 sensors detect less oxygen. I think EFIE systems are better but, it's costly compared to the the Oxyisolators.

Protium also stated that the oxyisolators will prevent your car from getting the check engine light when the air/fuel ratio is leaned out. Don't know for sure if it's true since I haven't tried them yet (but I have ordered them). we'll see.
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snax View Post
Is the gain in comparison to winter driving?

I am very interested to see some well validated results. Frankly, the cost of materials is so minimal that even a 2-3% gain might make something like this worth the effort.
It's in comparison to cool spring weather...and only one tank.

Not running the cells right now and after checking them out yesterday I found they were about 1/2 full of the brownish jelly type sludge (iron oxide jell?) that had settled out. Had noticed the amp draw was dropping relative to cell temps over time...doesn't look like 304 ss is going to do it...at least for the + side which is where the O is generated. Using NaOH.

Will put some pics at the link when I get my camera back...plus some specifics as to miles on the jars so far and temps vs amps.
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