Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

After reading this long list of engine / aero / tranny mods, I notice there is no mention of modding the gasoline chemistry. Why do this? The flame front of today's gasoline is too fast; the trend towards speeding up this front ("to achieve better combustion") is counter-productive. Ask any guru.
I realize discussions of chemistry & thermodynamics is a sure-fire turn-off to many people. Be that as it may, chemistry is what this combustion thing is all about! To change gasoline combustion, turning a screw or putting a "turbulater" on your air intake is not addressing the problem (and you might just upset the emissions gods); pouring a can of super combustible $nake oil in your gas tank might make you feel better, but is it really gonna change combustion? Not really. The trend lately is "cleaner". Cleaner?
Years ago, when pump gas quality was slipping, I decided there was too much BS (Bad Science) about pump gas - so I "took some apart"... to find out exactly what all this press was about. To my knowledge, this had not done before.
The findings? Pump gas (any brand, any octane, any locale) was/is not all gasoline. No, nothing is put into the gas... but have you smelled this stuff?
Long story short, I now knew what had to be done to pump gas (even avgas) to alter combustion. I played around with several substances before I hit on a chemical which slowed the combustion down (sluggish) - then, I could advance the initial (spark) timing to wake the engine up, again.
My MPG meter seemed to like it (this was pre-ScanGage years); I pushed more & more ; found the "ping point" and then used a timing light to check the initial timing. It was way advanced. Power timing, remember? Now, we have computerized ignition ...controlled by the oxygen sensor. Automatic "ping" supression. Power timing all the time. So cool! The result is more torque (no "ping") available at a given throttle setting. Imagine cruising downhill; what happens to your gas mileage? Right! All because the flame front is slower. PM me to finish this conversation....

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

*Sigh*

Ok. (*opening up my wallet)

How much? :)

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

yeah OK how.....

Oh dang Tradosaurus beat me to it!

Peter.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Is this Chembustion??

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

How much? Send me an email, chief... so we can talk about this more (I have several pages of printed facts / discussion ... yes, including the co$t of this technology). Ye shall be informed / pleased with your purchase; there is no scam here! I am a retired R&D engineer who just happens to be an auto buff - so, no smoke. If you are serious, you will contact me OFF this forum.

My ride is equipped with a ScanGuage II ... I dislike factoring in all the clutter of "assumptions". The only changes I have made (except the gasoline mod) to this vehicle are tires & a blockage of the aero-dirty grill opening... which seems to help my over-all average MPG (VERY slightly).

I'm fully aware of mentioning such a MPG improver on a public forum. Everyone is an expert... as well as being skeptical. Sobeit. These forums are full of battles. I don't fight. This is why the email route (keeps forum administrators happier[?]).

I have had only ONE dissatisfied customer over the years... and, upon my asking for further info as to what he had done to not get the results I had - I found out he had short-cutted my prep advice. So, I set him straight... and never heard from him again.

Ted Hart / chembustion at yahoo dot com

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Yes it is. Who might you be? MPGResearch?

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

See the other posts....

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

so where abouts in north carolina are you? just curious.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

I'm in Chaham Co. - the boonies; next to the edge of the Earth. And it's not quite far enough out....

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Oops! Try Chatham....

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

You can certainly understand our dilemma on the side of the forum administration. We get people signing up daily for the sole purpose of trying to get free advertising for their additives and devices, and 99% of the stuff out there does not work.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

"99% of the stuff out there does not work." I agree. I was aware of (some of?) these when I first started "playing" with this "smelly" gasoline ... in the early '70s of the last century! One thing led to another (I'm stubborn as hello, too) with the gas chemistry changes... I was just adding more hydrocarbon chemistry to it. No oxygen, no nitrogen, no sulphates. These guys can be bad news. Lots of "failures"; some small improvements... these weren't worth pursuing.

When I finally found a working compound, I still had to 1) find a ceiling, 2) look out for harmful effects, and 3) check for legality of this approach; catalytic converters were chemical reactors, too. EPA was watching, always watching....

When I began feeling comfortable with this change I started selling the technology package to those who responded to my ads. This was the easy part! The concept does improve gasoline mileage... by changing the torque curve's shape & amplitude. Torque is an unappreciated parameter; HP is the popular term ... but HP is torque per unit time (RPM).

At any rate, changing gasoline chemistry is like changing tires or shapes or oils. The less known about gasoline, the better the CARtel likes it.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Would someone on this list volunteer to try out Gasalene's product if he were to send some test samples for free?

Because there is no way in Hell I'm going to be the guinea pig!

Gasalene, how about it?

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

My vehicle is setup so I would know almost instantly. I regularly monitor my fuel trim with my scangauge, so if my fuel trim instantly goes south, I know it doesn't work. Unfortunately I just put a set of new LRR tires on last week, and with as little as I drive, it will probably take me at least a month to get them properly broken in. Even if I dumped a placebo into my tank, the mileage will get progressively better as the tires break in.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Hi, Jay -

I am not ignoring you; my A**hole of a server keeps "pulling my plug" and wiping me out!
Sorry; I'll keep trying.

Ted Hart / CHEMbustion

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Sample? Of a concept? How?

-Ted Hart / CHEMbustion

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Please close your wallet; contact with my email addy will provide you with more info before you decide to purchase my concept / technology package. I would not put anything in my gas tank based on the info I have posted.
[ chembustion at yahoo dot com ] ... is there another way to safely do this?

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

I'm between a rock & a hard place ; How do I tell someone who is knowledgeable about "$nake oils" and their effect$ ...without seeming like another spammer?

I have more info to send (email or snailmail) which will help you to decide upon sending for this package. I am at [ chembustion at yahoo dot com ].

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

You stated in the first post that So you used these mysterious substances and implemented your idea.

All I'm asking is that you send a sample of what you used to one of the members here to try out.

P.S. I can be bought at a price. :)

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Ah! If only it were that simple! Here I am, changing the gasoline chemistry (to impede the flame front velocity a bit) and you want a sample of "this substance"? So you can ...?
"Try out"? I fail to see your reasoning... If member A gets a big improvement, what does (s)he do with this info? Proclaim to the rest of the group (s)he approves of these "claims" (which I have carefully avoided making)? I see... credibility is the name of this game. But, the concept once gone, means I have lost it because the initial investment is not there. You see, "free" is also "throw away". If you have invested in something, you tend to protect this investment.
My entire aim is to fight back against the great gas pump gouge with a concept which stretches the interval between pumpings. I just happened to hit on a substance which altered the chain-of-events in the air-fuel-ignition sequence.
Prior to computerized ignition systems (points & capacitor days), I had to power time for optimum efficiency; this was a fixed system. Not very flexible; ie, it was compromising. With the introduction of the oxygen sensor, I now had the perfect system ... always power timing. OBD-ll saved the day!
Hint: Take a chance & try it out. Then, you can offer your endorsement ... or not.
Can you see my dilemma? There are other <gassavers...> members here which were on yesteryears <MPGResearch>. They took a chance - you can ask them about their approvals. A sample is not what this is about; a conceptual change in chemistry is ....
Ted Hart ( a ScanGauge ll supporter)

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Gasolene,

I may be a little slow, but I still don't understand exactly what you are selling.

The best I can tell is that you are selling instructions for making a chemical that can be added to your gas tank that will slow combustion so that ignition timing can be advanced (without detonation) and thus efficiency might be increased on OBD2 vehicles (so you are implying that persons with carbed vehicles and OBD 0/1 vehicles would be best not to purchase this info)

Is this a correct assessment of what you are offering? If not, please correct me.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

I just skimmed this thread, but I think I have the feel of it. To slow down the "flame front" all you need is higher octane fuel. The octane rating is the fuel's resistance to combustion. When the flame front moves too quickly or the combustion chamber is too hot (as in high-compression or forced induction, where the mixture may explode prior to the spark), higher octane fuel is required. Modern engines can adjust timing to run on regular fuel at the expense of power and mileage.

If the fuel additive this guy is selling costs more than the 10c per gallon of higher-octane fuel, it is not worth it. Save yourself the money and run what the manufacturer recommends for your vehicle.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

This is what the OP sent me on a PM:

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

First, I am not "making" a chemical; I'm merely using a chemical compound intended for another purpose entirely. This chemical slows the flame front of the gasoline used when added to the tank; not the combustion, per se.
No, I am not implying carbed / OBD l engines cannot use this concept. The pre-emission era (1968, 69) was when I first started investigating this concept. Power timing (listening for the "ping" under load) was the means by which I found the "new" timing advance point with this modified gas. Very awkward, very clumsy & I had to include detailed instructions (in the concept package) as to how to safely power time an Otto engine. This was on yesteryear's gas, too! Not the stuff sold today. OBD ll will not be power timed.
OK?

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

You are missing the whole point, Fetch. First, the combustion of today's gasoline is not efficient. You ain't gonna get good gas mileage on whichever octane gas you run. Higher octane gas is not gonna slow the flame front or give you better MPG. It may give more detonation resistance... but so what? If 10 cents per gallon gave more MPG, everyone would be running this 92 octane stuff. But it won't / can't. As long as OBD ll is retarding the timing (and that is all it does) the engine in question is not gonna be as efficient as it can be. It will, however, be quiet. No knock, no "ping", no roughness. No power, either. And power is what makes good MPG... (horse)power being torque per unit time.
If you are gonna criticize my explanation of what goes on in the mod. gas combustion process, you might brush up on basic gasoline combustion theory. The auto manufacturer is only trying to sell product - it's the fuel for this product the "pump people" promote... with such glowing words as "cleaner"! Nobody talks power or MPG, anymore. There ain't much to talk about.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

So after all these words I'm still confused on the chemical compound you are using but that is the "secret" isn't it?

Again, how much?

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

" I played around with several substances before I hit on a chemical which slowed the combustion down (sluggish) - then, I could advance the initial (spark) timing to wake the engine up, again. "

Slowing combustion down...Sounds like an increase in octane rating to me...
Gasoline is not the most efficient fuel out there. But it is what my car is designed to run on.... what exactly are you proposing that we put into our engines? Warning: You will have a hard time convincing anyone to do it if it costs more than you would save by using it...

Also, with all other factors thrown out, higher octane fuel will slow the flame front. That is what it is DESIGNED to do. Higher octane fuel will save gas in vehicles DESIGNED TO RUN HIGHER OCTANE FUEL. If you run 87 in a newer car designed to run 91 or above, the timing will be adjusted and it will make less power. If you run 87 in an older engine (no variable timing) designed to run 91 or above, it just runs like crap. There are several tests in Car and Driver magazine over the years to support this fact.

You said that if 92 would give better mpg, everyone would be running it. My counter-argument: If 92 DIDN'T give better MPG, barely anyone would be running it. Why would an auto manufacturer recommend it?

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Gasolene- how does your system/idea compare to water injection/water vapor systems? It seems that water injection/vapor would do the same thing you are describing (allowing the timing to be advanced for more power without ping/damage).

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Hi, Eric -

Interesting question (H2O injection / vapor systems)! You may be interested to know I started these gas engine mods many years ago by adding water vapor (altho' "injecting" implies squirting minute amounts of either liquid water or vapor) to the combustion process ; as this became cluttered with pumps, tubing, reservoirs, anti-freeze problems, corrosion problems ... and so forth. I ended up with a means of supersaturating air with much more water vapor content than air could hold normally. The next step was to run a test engine on this very damp air. I even hold 2 US Patents on this mod.
Long story short, the engine (on an engine dyno) ran fine! But, simple the system was not! So I had to rethink my entire approach.
To modify the combustion process, something had to be changed. If not changing the air (supersaturation with H2O), change the fuel. One thing led to another... and I finally isolated this search to one compound.
After focusing upon this compound IN the gasoline (& playing with A/F ratios in the 2-bbl carb, ignition advance curves, air temps ... all the variables which would be encountered in the "real world") I finally (!) had the solution to these problems of poor mileage, legality (auto inspection programs don't like extra hardware), pre-ignition woes and the like. In the gas tank is out of sight. Emissions are no problem, either.
The introduction of OBD ll to the solid state ignition systems eliminated all the hassles encountered on the road. This alone opened the doors which held me prisoner in this world of change. A variable ignition advance curve is ideal.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Hi, again "Fetch"!

The octane rating is exactly that ... a rating. It is a ratio which indicates the relative resistance to knock (pre-ignition) of this gas to 100 octane test gas. It does not slow gasoline's combustion. 92 octane is recommended for cars with high compression ratios... in their desperate search for EPA's higher MPG nos. the gas mixture is being squeezed more, raising the BMEP. To avoid engine damage, pre-ignition is avoided by using higher octane gas.

You are assuming my compound costs more than it saves at the pump. Wrong. This would be a deal-breaker. Please drop this 97-octane-expense-to-gain-more-MPG thing. Fact: All gasoline is the same stuff. The various octane steps are due to the addition of octane boosters (used to be tetraethyl lead); these additions cost more. 2-2-4 Trimethylpentane (gasoline) comes from oil.
You've been listening to gas company ads. They want you to buy their BRAND of gasoline. It's all gasoline. Different additives? Perhaps. Different amounts? Hmmm....

I put up with the trouble & expense of modding my gas because I can travel lots more miles - because I do this. With the price of a gallon of 87 octane being what it is (high!) I can well afford to add my 260ish cents of "stuff" to the 4 gallons of gas I pump - because I'm gonna go much further on these 4 gallons. Mix it while refueling ... easy.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

I say give Gasalene one more post to be specific and then if he doesn't then ban him for spam. :)

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

260ish cents to 4 gallons? That's adding $ .65 to the price of each gallon treated or 18.5% to the cost of a gallon of gas assuming $3.50 per gallon which is about the current cost in my area, meaning there would have to be at least that 18.5% increase in mileage just to break even. I don't think there's a product out there that's going to do it. As far as beating EPA, I along with about everyone on this forum beat it by several miles per gallon. Just by driving at 50-55 MPH in my '88 Escort I can get near OLD EPA highway rating in local city/rural road driving and have on a few occasions achieved over 50 MPG on the highway. The OLD EPA rating on that car was 33 city, 42 highway, and 37 combined, the NEW EPA rating is 28 city, 38 highway, and 32 combined.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Power...rt&srchtyp=ymm

As you can see from my mileage log the lifetime average since I started tracking mileage on this web site has been 41.51 MPG and most of these miles have been local driving since the car has over 518K miles and I usually drive one of my better cars when going on highway trips. In order for me to benefit from your product I'd have to average better than 49.19 MPG.

If you're confident your product can produce those numbers and want to send me a sample premixed I'll gladly test it in the '88 Escort for the other forum members. If I had a product that I was that confident in I'd gladly give away a few samples in order to build my customer base and convince many members of fuel savings forum that the product was worth the cost. My tank size is 12.9 gallons so enough to treat one tank would be about an $8. investment for the chance of selling multiple versions of your product.

It seems the general consensus on this forum is "put up or shut up".

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

I don't read gas ads. I can't really say I've ever seen one. I buy gas at whatever station happens to be closest to me when the gas light comes on. The stuff I've been saying is coming from the pens of engineers who have written articles in the car mags I've read over the years.

I guess I'm a little put off by the "secret formula" jazz. Either come out and say what you're putting in there so someone here can test it out for himself, or be done with it. On this site, we are always hearing guys who try to sell this product or that product which have no results. I am wary of additives that could cause engine damage. Others here have bought products and taken the apart to show that they are flashing lights and resistors.

Let's see the formula and let the guinea pigs here put up their results.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Hi, "fetch", et al....

OK, guys. I'll tell you what this material is; I'll also tell you - to run out & quickly try it out & get in deep dog poo because you haven't a clue as to what you've done (by not doing something) you'll scream at me... right? This is exactly why it took me so long to "polish" this idea. I'm just trying to get your attention by steering your questions without making brash claims.
All this reference to "outside experts" (engineers & otherwise) not agreeing is without merit. I'm an engineer, too; I can talk the talk & walk the walk.

So - without further ado, the material in question is napthalene (an insecticide). NOT paradichlorobenzene (also an insecticide)! You must prepare it a certain way; mix it a certain way; take certain precautions when handling; and be prepared to answer some questions by the various "experts" who'll question what you are doing when refueling. But do not expect me to tell you how / when / why to "handle" it. This info comes with the technology package offered.You can, however, get it at the box stores, hardware stores, drug stores, dime stores and some grocery stores(altho' it is a poison).

Does it burn? You bet...under the right conditions. So does grain dust. And granite dust. "Dust" is the key word, here.
I'll be here...to explain why you've got/had misgivings about using this in your ride. I'll also try to answer questions. Shoot....

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

:D BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Gasalene here. I don't see my post (made yesterday). Why?
In this post, I told everyone reading them exactly what the "secret" (I never used this word) ingredient was ... but not how much & how mixed & such.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Scroll down. The post is there.

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

Hmmm.... I just saw the "Dr. Quack" postings. I'm a "newbie"; ie, not PC savvy so I cannot respond other than like a kid might. I am not a spammer; I use chemistry quite well. And I have a technology I have developed over the years; it is for sale; it works for me; it works for the many customers I've had.
Even with alcohol added to the gasoline; even in foreign lands ... where the gasoline is crap. Give it away? Why should I ? Would you?
If you had "taken apart" fresh pump gasoline (like I have) you would be amazed at what you can get for fuel these days. Remember "the arab oil embargo"? At around this time (1973), gasoline quality began a long slide. But this forum is not the place for these findings.
I can be contacted at [ chembustion at yahoo dot com ] if anyone is interested in further comments or ordering info. Please note I haven't used this forum to promote anything ... just to say this technology exists.
Is this spamming??? Pardon me....

Re: Chemically modify the gasoline.
 

As has been mentioned earlier, we have had folks join the forums, and chat for a while about wonderful technology, that eventually turns out that they can sell to our members... for a price. Granted, its not like the "drive by" spammers that drop their links and run, but so far, all we are seeing is a long, drawn out sales pitch.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, which is why your posts haven't been deleted, but we're strong skeptics here. We've seen a lot. Any device or additive you can think of, we've probably had someone that tried it.