Saw a Smart ForTwo today up close and personal
 

I went to Autozone today and low and behold there was a new black Smart ForTwo in the paint store parking lot across from the 'zone.

Man - that sucker is really small. Photos of it are really misleading - make them look bigger than they are in the flesh.
It is literally no longer than a Harley - it may even be shorter.

It's really amazing that that car conforms to crash test standards! It should get 60 mpg easy - why doesn't it?

why not 60 MPG?

safety, emissions, overall weight.

I like the smart. it is really short but it sits up really tall and has a lot of room on the inside. I test drove one not too long ago. the mercedes dealership told me that it had the same crash test scores as a BMW M5. whether that is true or not, I can't say. before you judge the size too much, test drive one. I was very similar, I thought it was going to be really tight.

I was actually fine with that and was trying to convince my wife to get one so we test drove it. she currently has a honda element. she said it drove similarly to that. obviously not the overall length but the cabin room for the two ocupants.

my first car was a 3cyl geo metro so I am a little biased towards the little pickers.

You know in Scotland Pizza Hut use those Smart suckers instead of Scooters!

and boy those kids sure drive them fast, like whippets, and they do give great FE because its small, aero dynamic with a smallish engine.

It is my understanding that the crash test ratings used by the NHTSA are based on the size of the vehicle (curb weight, dimensions, I'm not sure). Thus, a 5-star rated small vehicle will have less crashworthiness than a 5-star large vehicle.

They get poor MPG because "america doesn't want slow cars".

The smart here in Canada used the diesel and got awesome MPG. (0.8 litre diesel, 40 HP, can go up to 130 KMH). 51/60 is the US MPG rating if I convert its liter/100 KM.

The one we have now has the more powerfull gasoline engine. Quite the downgrade...

Now please stop bashing the car, it's the same reason we have 105 HP Honda fits and no option of the sub 100 HP engines all europe and Japan has. (And a whole lot of other cars). America always gets the **** end of the stick in both economy and powerful engine of the spectrum when it comes to imported cars.

I drove one of those diesel one and for town use, it's all you need. It reminds me of a scooter, you can drive the thing floored and you wouldn't hurt anyone.

https://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/mc/06fortwo.htm

I really loved the thing actually, the inside didn't feel small (unless you looked at the back), and the stereo was descent(ahah), it didn't even feel cheap, just different, and everybody looks at you like you're driving a porsche (but not for the same reasons I suppose, lol).

Dunno...seen a lot of crash test videos on YouTube...Smarts have fared quite well...a lot of larger vehicles didn't do near as well...

a smart is maybe small, maybe expansive, maybe it doesnt have the mpg it should, but a least, it got a roll cage, that is why its kind of safe.

I've been seeing them almost daily around the Philly burbs. A yellow one flew past me on the highway yesterday doing about 70mph. :rolleyes: C'mon, what the point of investing in a decent FE vehicle if you're gonna drive like a maniac anyway?

Aerodynamics. Park that thing next to an old CRX, a Civic VX, or even a newer Corolla (all of which are more economical) and the first thing you will notice is that it is MUCH taller. And tall cars just don't cut through the air like shorter ones. This is CERTAINLY the reason why a car with a mere 70HP isn't as economical on the freeway as SO many larger cars. Remember that the Smart is a European car designed for European driving (ie lots of city driving, not much freeway driving). Americans, on the other hand, drive MUCH more on the freeway. So a lower, more aerodynamic car would be MUCH more beneficial here in the US.

Besides increased weight cars have increased frontal area compared to my VX. This cancels out any aero improvements over the last 15 years. I think its a "height war" in response to the SUV flood over the same time period.

Aerodynamics is the key component in high speed driving. Reducing drag allows smaller engines and more transmission gears to improve mileage significantly.

I like the Smart because it is light, but the EPA ratings prove this point, aero is the solution and height destroys to potential for lower overall drag with the corresponding fuel penalty.

In the old days it was easy to see which car had the best aero value combined with frontal area. 70-80 MPH on 30 horsepower was good. and some did even better in the days when aero actually increases your top speed because your engine was small and underpowered, compared to today.


regards
gary

Some guy but a Haybusa Turbo charged engine in one of those and it looked like it was powered by TNT!

Look at this crazy sh it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQIizRp9ck

goes to show you. you can pimp out ANYTHING

One of the advantages of increased height is that it allows the seats to be higher off the ground, making for greater ease of entry/exit for many people. With an aging population, this is important. What is the point of a really low CD car if only 20 year olds can get in and out of it? Even for me, it's easier to get into/out of a Mopar minivan than it is my Geo. My wife can't even get into the Geo. Hence the Cadillac.

Seems like everybody wants the Smart car to be perfect. It ain't. But it does fill an important niche.

Good post, JoeBob!

That's how I look at it too. As an owner for nearly 4 years, the car is not perfect, but it's great car overall. Driving with the top all the way down in the sun and scoring 60+ mpg US (it's a diesel) is hard to beat. No other cabriolet that I know of could do that!

You're right. For a 1750-1825 pound car it "should" get better mileage. EPA estimates are garbage even for estimates. I've NEVER gotten less than 39.8mpg TOTAL combined driving. (see my logs, I don't count the first tank).

Parking is awesome. Maneuvering is absolutely incredible! My first car was a '67 Impala - it was around 2.5 Smarts long and almost 2 Smarts wide and compared to that - the Smart is miniscule. In the Smart I've been in some very tight spots. Lots of people cry about how small it is whining like they go out and buy a couch every weekend - it'll carry a grocery cart of groceries easy. It actually makes you buy less since you alway have in the back of your mind, "Do I really need this? It might not fit in the car.":thumbup: That's a good thing, I've been spending less money at the store and this is a huge impulse buyer talking.

Safety. Over on the Smartboards there is a guy who says he rolled his Smart several times after being sideswiped. Pics have yet to surface but it just happened yesterday. I've got a folder with pics of US Smart wrecks - the track record so far is excellent.

As far as what's the use of driving a good FE car like a maniac. A lot of owners are getting them because their "cutesy" and compared to "insert their current vehicle here", it's a huge improvement

Now...would I buy another? The next one will be here in about 3 months. :D If you order one today the wait is 1.5 to 2 years. :thumbdown:

I visited Manhattan recently and saw a bunch of them. Most of them were parked, and in ridiculously tiny spots.

If you've ever tried to find a parking space in Manhattan, you know that this feature alone makes the car priceless.

You make a good point about entry/exit issues for the elderly. But at the same time, ALOT of people have no problem getting into and out of a lower car. What I would like to see are more options, though. The BIG problem with small cars these days is that they are ALL tall. This is probably THE reason why none comes close to older cars when it comes to fuel economy - even if weight is similar. If you DON'T want a small car that resembles a miniature minivan, you pretty much have to buy an old used car. So why doesn't someone actually build a short, aerodynamic small car for those of us who would rather get high mileage and/or just prefer this type of car? The Smart might be OKAY for the city. But when you are not getting MUCH better mileage than a Nissan Altima on the freeway, what is the point for those of us who do ALOT of freeway driving.

You're right StorminMatt- Ease of getting in an out is a big reason you see a lot of Smart owners buying them - heck, around here 9 out of 10 Smart owners are over 45 and thats a fact!! I never really looked at the CD on the Smart but that is most likely the reason as I've said it has the aerodynamics of an egg. Hey, the design worked for Mork. :D The best example ever of aerodynamic from a high # factory production car was the Insight. When I had mine I heard it everyday from strangers how it looked "weird". That would be a reason - still the Insight wasn't short in terms of Smart short. For someone to do short they are going to have to make it high to fit safety features in. Nowadays, leaving safety out is not an option.

What is the point? There are quite a few.

• 1.

I'd honestly rather crash in a Smart than a CRX, Civic VX/HX, Metro or even quite a few new cars any day of the week - that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind having one of each. Mostly I'd rather never crash at all though - a lot of people feel the same way. Safety is something that is a big player.

• 2.

The Smart is 95% recyclable. I know a lot of people say "who cares", there are some who do. How many other cars out there can make the same claim? Those plastic body panels some were whining about on another thread here, they are recyclable too.

• 3.

The Smart actually has character, this should be #1 on the list. It's nowhere near as boring as say, an Altima or Civic. A lot of people like their car to have little character, even a Fit has some character. Nissan has the Versa which has a little too. This all of course is very opinionated, I've seen a very very few select - mostly little ricer punks with the mentality of say, a monkey - who are very firm in feeling the Smart is almost the ugliest car ever made and ranks only second to the Insight. :eek:

• 4.

Price! The window sticker on mine was $14k. This included A/C, Automatic (OK, manumatic), Power Windows, Aluminum Wheels, Power Mirrors, Panoramic Roof, CD Player, Paddle Shifters and I'm sure I forgot something. Find another car optioned out like that. If you don't want all that stuff and just want a no frills lightweight car you're more along the lines of having a window sticker of $11,600. Next I'm sure I'll hear whining about how it's only a 2 seater. Yep, those stupid Corvettes are only 2 seaters too. As are the Porsches, S2000, and a few others I didn't mention. It being not a sports car is what makes it fit its niche in the market. A very small 2 seater Point A to Point B vehicle. Bang for the buck.



The Smart isn't for everyone. I've seen quite a few convert - haters to lovers - once they sat in the car and seen the features available for the price.

You didn't mention Bosch's excellent ESP/ABS/BAS unit, which is unavailable in other small cars in N America. Active safety +++.

In a few years, US law will require SUVs (if there are any left on the market by then) to have ESP. smart had it in 2003.

Highway MPG could be easily obtained by adding a boat tail so that the smart resembles something like this . It would have to be made of some kind of fabric material supported by telescoping rods so that the smart's parking advantage wouldn't be lost.

It's probably set so high for safety reasons.

It's already being phased in, and not only for SUVs. All mass market automobiles in the US will have to have ESP by 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stability_control
Of course, with it comes ABS and traction control too. In a separate mandate, all vehicles will also have TPMS, I think by 2010.

I hate to revive an old thread but I just saw one of these today.
This is small it is smaller than my CRX. Really wish I would have had the CRX today it would have fun to part next to it. It is taller but shorter and narrower than the CRX from the looks.
I like the concept but think it needs some more work. Would expect it to get better mileage for it size.

Smart Car + Open Throttle + Jersey Barriers @70mph

It was this video that finally convinced my wife that this wasn't suicide. Once the EPA lets in those hideously dirty 75mpg diesels I'll start looking to get one.

B

Today I was driving my normal route. This particular section is 3 miles narrow two lane, trucks prohibited.

I saw a Chevy Blazer coming up on me fast, sped to 50 MPH and glided to 43 MPH, in a 45 zone.

The Blazer ended up 3 feet from my bumper, passed me over a double yellow line, and blasted up another 250 yards where it tailgated a Minivan at less than one car length until they reached the light. I glided and DFCO'ed up behind the idiot woman in the Blazer, just in time to make my right turn, while she blasted up behind another car passed on the right, cut off another car to get in the left turn lane, AN PULLED INTO THE SAME GAS STATION WHERE I GET MY FUEL.

I thought about giving her a piece of my mind, but I could spend the rest of my life doing that with no real effect.

The Smart is a step in the right direction, although I would prefer a small car with much better aero and some more crumple zone space in the front and rear, more storage as well.

The real danger (and the reason) many people will not drive small cars is the idiots that drive tanks.

Maybe after the hurricane that causes a supply disruption in oil imports this fall, (or any other world event) gas prices will actually cause idiots to change their habits, but I am not optomistic.

I wish the idiot today had been caught and forced to drive a Honda Rebel down a road with another identical idiot in a huge SUV 3 feet from her arse at 44 MPH. She might actually get a clue.

regards
gary

Of course, you can avoid MANY of the pitfalls of driving a Smart (including its ugly appearance) by getting a Honda Civic instead. With the exception of maybe urban parking, the 2008 Civic is better in every way possible than the Smart, including gas mileage and styling.

F.Y.I.- Here's a link to the first American Smart to get totaled due to a bad crash. The link is here. There are more pictures of the car in the original poster's gallery.

IMO, he fared well. Some would say a bump from the side sent him flying but if you've ever been bumped from the side without ever even expecting it you know that it scares the heck out of you - reason to jerk the wheel a little too much. :eek:

That's a completely opinionated statement.

i agree 100%. Civic will hold four people too. Guess i'm a ricer now...:o

I want a smart now!!!! LOL

-Nate

But...but...but...all the "best" experts agree I should be taking out the back seat of my Geo to get more mileage...so then it would only hold two people.

Actually, that the Smart only holds two people may be a feature, rather than a defect.

I do realize that saying ANYTHING negative about the Smart amounts to blasphemy around here. But I know PLENTY of people who share my feelings on the styling of the Smart. Honestly, I would rather drive a 1970 Dodge Coronet station wagon than THAT thing. On the other hand, the poor gas mileage is NOT opinionated. It really IS pathetic that a car THAT small and underpowered can't even touch 40MPG on the freeway.

Matt,

Nope, 'tain't blasphemy...everyone is entitled to an opinion. Styling is subjective...But your comments kinda remind me of an old friend of mine from my youth who dismissed my interest in getting a BMW 2002 with "aw, that's just a cult car". And who talked me into getting rid of a '66 Malibu and repairing my '60 Corvair...but these incidents did teach me some valuable life lessons. Lost track of that man about 20-25 years ago, and haven't put much effort in to trying to find him...BTW, there ain't nothing wrong with a 1970 Dodge Cornet station wagon...I had a '65 Plymouth Fury wagon (similar car, IIRC) and it was the best handling large car I've owned. Loved to take that thing up on Glendora Mountain Road and thrash around up there. For those who are not familiar with GMR, that's where everybody who grew up in the north San Gabriel Valley in the '60s and '70s learned to drive, amongst other things. Narrow two lane road with many, many switchbacks. Turn-outs too. Some with a nice view, some secluded. But I digress...

As for underpowered, I haven't driven one yet, but they seem to have about 30-40% more hp than my Geo, and the Geo has adequate power. As for gas mileage, look at Wazabi Owner's gaslog...looks like he's consistently doing better than 40mpg.

I am all for any car that can convince US drivers we dont need to drive 3 ton vehicles.
I wish Honda would build another VX. I think it could pass current emissions, and with some aero work, and gear ratio fiddling, with computer controlled manual tranny who knows what kind of mileage it could get.

regards
gary

Honda could build it, but they couldn't sell it. Not yet. People have to hurt for longer before they'll accept less power en masse.

StorminMatt - I'm of the same opinion - hideous and undermiled, as the diesel engine gets WAY better MPG. It IS possible to get better mileage out of that. Opinions are just fine - no one is flaming anyone - that's okay.

I liked the comment that 90% of the owners are over 45 - I understand the why there.

Imagine if they made a low-profile with a more efficient engine...

Holycow, I agree with you, but I think we may have actually reached the point in "pain at the pump" where people would buy. Looks likd Ford and GM have concluded the behemoth profit days are over. Should have been half my lifetime ago when they were called station wagons.

We took a cruise to Bermuda a couple of years ago. I loved the little vans you could park on a 4X8 sheet of plywood with 1 liter diesel engines in them. They claimed it was the cleanest air on the planet, but all the two strokes gave me a headache from the monoxide.

regards
gary

Not ANYTHING negative actually and I know PLENTY of people too who share your feelings too but it seems like the people who follow me around town daily to ask about the car far outweigh that number. I won't get into the thing with how most of people who think the little thing is ugly are the super macho guys who have underlying issues with their sexuality and try to cover it up. AH HA! Made you think! That's just an opinionated statement too. :D I respect your opinion but your hate does run deep for the smart which is odd..did a smart owner steal your girlfriend/wife? :p In all honesty - my disgust for BMW's runs about the same as your hate for smarts - it seems like 90% of them drive around like maniacs, but that's just my opinion :rolleyes: .

As far as mileage. It can touch 40mpg on the freeway so I'm not sure where your getting your info from on that. I've had 2 tanks that were under 40mpg and one was the first tank which meant the car was at the dealer idling killing mpgs and wasn't my doing. The other was less than .5mpg under 40mpg. It seems lately with A/C I'm getting a steady 41mpg though :thumbdown: . One thing I never mentioned was my gross weigh, meaning the capacity the vehicle can carry is maxed out almost ever time I drive the car. Between the wife and myself and all my tools I keep in the car etc. we reach the rated capacity. I've been working out like crazy to lose weight but it keeps getting replaced with muscle, getting skinnier but bulking up. :( If the Smart had a lower profile it would definitely get much better mileage, with the way I sit in the seat I have a useless 9-10 inches worth of dead space between the top of my head and the roof. The roominess in the interior is what makes it appealing to the geriatric crowd as well as ease of entry and exit - all attributed to the darn tallness of the car, which is what kills the mileage.:rolleyes:

Still, not ANYTHING negative you say will be discredited and heck - opinions are still fine. You just stated it like it was fact and my mood at the moment back when I wrote that I had a problem with it. Almost like going to the mall and telling a mother of a newborn baby just how ugly her baby really is - whether it is ugly or not you think it is.:p No hard feelings at all StorminMatt - we're all grown up and just having fun here.

FWIW, a 70 Coronet wagon done up to be a Road Runner/GTX wagon would be awesome! Keep a slant 6 in it for mileage and you'd have me hooked.

Hi JoeBob - actually my old Geo mileage pretty much mirrors my mileage in the Smart. It even surpasses it just slightly but I can accredit that to the 90k miles that were on the Geo - the car was loose. Once I get those kind of miles on the Smart I would think I would be getting a consistent 45mpg easy while topping 50mpg in the fall and spring. That's what I used to do in the Metro too.

I feel a whole lot safer in the Smart and I think I had someone in the backseat of the Metro once, most people refused to ride in it though it wasn't a bad looking car. Don't seem to have that problem for ridealongs in the Smart - people at work wanting me to drive to lunch etc. so they can ride in it.

Power....I think its about as powerful or maybe even slightly quicker than my old Metro with a much better ride.

I get asked nearly DAILY to sell my CRX - but people offer far too little. My car now seems to be "sexy" due to the gas price crunch right now. Not to mention all the power of the little thing...

My wife will tell you that I've driven a Geo Metro and the CRX - I've got no problems as Wazabi just pointed out. :D In WV many guys apparently feel the need to have a jacked-up $50,000 truck (seriously), as it's sort of a status symbol. I always drive past some behemoth thinking, "Did she bite down when you hit a speed bump in the parking lot and now you've got to compensate?" :p :D

I think the Smart is ugly personally, and I'm 6'3" and JUST fit into the CRX. People are often amazed, although it's got TONS of leg room owing to no back seat.

Just yesterday I was riding in a BMW driven by a neighbor. She knows NOTHING about it, not even the model! She could qualify for NASCAR - driving way up in the holler and the roads are pencil-thin and curvy, yet she drove about 45-50 in a 25 MPH rated area. One of the problems is we give licenses to ANYONE - regardless of safety, just who pays the money, and then the car manufacturers sell them anything they will pay for.

At 6'3" you'd be really comfortable inside the Smart - only problem is that's because of the high roof which gives it the quirky styling which seems to be a love it or hate it thing.:eek:

I do think my old Insight was way more comfortable than the Smart is. Of course I added an armrest and was about to add cruise also. I'm only "average" in height though.:o

I'm surprised at how positive the "good ole boys" are to the Smart around here.