LARGE LPM Production? Any Input?
 

Greetings!
I have seen many different units, producing a varried amount of HHO (1-10LPM approx) through many different cell designs and setups etc... but I have some questions I hope you can answer

I have sucessfully run small one banger briggs+stratton engines solely off of my ABS HHO unit. I draw approx 12-16amps and the hydrogen production is definately there, no denying that.. and does it work, you bet your sweet *** it does! :)


BUT as I started to think, I realized that the generation just simply isnt enough to REALLY make a LARGE impact on say, a V8 5.7L.

I found a guy in daytona beach who has a unit that is very interesting. I am hoping someone with some experience in this matter can let me know what they think of it. The idea seems very rational to me, and the LPM can apparently reach up to 50-60LPM. The overall premis is this:

"the power consumption is equally proportional to the amount of hydrogen that is required"

I will have to install another alternator and another slave battery in my rig to power this unit individually (which isnt a problem), and this appears to be something feasable for LARGE LPM production.

So! Forgive my lack of grammer skills, and take a look at these products/ideas and tell me what you think of it :)

Thank you, and be honest! hehe :)


Description:
https://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Dir...ance_Generator


Vids:
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOvpj...eature=related
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHzXp...eature=related

Thank you :)


gaVin
Canada

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying you want to add a second alternator and battery so you can run something like that V8 off nothing but HHO?

That's how it read to me anyways.

14-16 amps at 14 volts equals about 0.3 brake horsepower. This power is drawn by the alternator. What is supplying power to the alternator? The engine?

Yes, a second alternator (or a LARGER primary alternator) and slave battery is required to power the unit.

and yes, I would say the power to spin a SECOND alternator will inevitably come from the engine.

I understand loss of HP is to be expected with this process.

Secondly, I understand I cannot run my engine 100% off HHO gas (timing, pistons burning out, a slew of other little issues etc) but to get to that 70% HHO - 30% PETRO ratio is what Im looking for (approx)

What do you have to say about the electronics/design of this unit?

The electronics regarding this unit are of resonance drive technolgy.The unit however is not as efficient as the seller claims.Delivering 15LPM @ almost 200 amps is not exactly what most would call efficient.That much or more output can be produced easily using half that many amps.True the jugernut is a high output unit but the same if not more LPMS can be achieved by building 2 dry cell reaction chambers that have 13-12"x12" plates spaced at 1/16" configured -nnnnn+nnnnn- and using a pwm capable of handling the high amps.

what cell(s) in particular can achieve this 15LPM result?

Pistons will only get damaged because of other things. Not Hydrogen burning in the engine.

Bad timing can cause it as well as pre-ignition. You'd be VERY surprised at just how much of a beating an engine can take before it actually gets damaged. It takes REAL neglect to do that.

what is the MAXIUM ratio of HHO/GAS you have seen thus far?

ive heard 70% / 30% is the maximum you can go without serious engine modifications. What do you think of that?

I think they are full of it. If you made enough HHO to run an engine I see no reason you can't run 100% IF it's diluted with nitrogen rich(regular) air.

If you run 100% HHO under heavy load I can see issues with that as you are putting WAY more combustible material into that engine than it was designed for. Pretty much like opening a bottle of nitrous on the engine or running a lot of boost.

Looking at this from a energy in > energy out point of view...

If you're running on 100% HHO, you wont have any power left to move the car after you power the giant rack of alternators it'll take to produce that amount of energy worth of HHO. And your battery will go dead anyways.

To me it sounds like a car that could run on 100% self-produced on-demand HHO would violate the 2nd law of Thermodynamics, and be essentially a perpetual motion machine.

Just in case you didn't catch it, in the second scenario assumes you are running the HHO directly into the engine with no outside air whatsoever, so you're looking at about 200 CFM of HHO gas for your typical 4 banger wide open.

Here's a standard Tero Ranta design system that has an output of almost 19 LPm @ 110 amps.

Not really this site carries single alternators up to 1200 amps.More than enough to run everything.

https://www.zena.net/htdocs/alternators/alt_inf.shtml

No, you read me wrong. It's not that there wont be enough ELECTRICITY, no matter how many alternators you throw at it. The problem is ENERGY. 1200A of alternator takes about 50hp to run! And, you wont get 50HP worth of HHO out of that. And considering that for most smaller engines, you wont have 50hp of power at cruising RPMs, you'd have to rev your engine up in a lower gear to produce the 50hp to run the huge alternator and have hp left to push the car!

I understood you correctly,I was merely saying that it is possible and that it could be accomplished.Also at full load capacity it takes only 27.56 hp to run a 1200 amp alterator at max load.
You can mathematically determine the horsepower cost at any given load. (Remember, alternators respond to load. If there is no load present the alternator is basically freewheeling.)


Amps x Volts = Watts
Watts / 745.7 (one HP) = Electrical HP Produced by the Alternator
HP x 15% Efficiency Loss = HP Loss
HP + HP Loss = Total HP Used


Example:
1200A x 14.9V = 17880 Watts
17880 Watts / 745.7 = 23.97 HP
23.97 HP x 15% = 3.59 HP
23.97 + 3.59 = 27.56 HP Total

The most important question is what is the payback ? Which way does the horsepower benefit you ? How much horsepower are you currently losing because of low electrical system voltage ?

It is possible to run a motor on almost 100% hydroxy but the cost in doing so places your cost return into many years,that's the whole problem to over come.Even if you could achieve building and powering a system capable,are you prepared to totally rebuild the motor as well using stainless valves,complete stainless exhaust system along with stainless marine gasket sets to counter the rust caused from running that high amount of hydroxy?

Here again all I was saying it that it is possible and I do know it's not practical.

That's the hard way to do the calculation. The easy way is to ask google.
Feed this into google:
(14.9 * 1200) watts to hp
https://www.google.com/search?q=(14.9...0)+watts+to+hp

That is the easy way for sure,thanks THC

I was accounting for the fact that most car alternators have poor efficiency, especially heavily loaded, but while 50hp might be a little high, it's still a very substantial % of total available engine power, and far more than the engine will produce if running on just HHO.

Can anyone tell me why some HHO stacks use a neutral plate between positive and negative and others don't. Also, can you use HHO to replace LPG in a water boiler.

A neutral plate could separate the gasses but also looks electrically like a second cell in series increasing the plate surface area and doubling the voltage applied to the outer plates. The Neutral plate one side is positive and the other side becomes negative as the electrons flow from the primary plate set on either side of it. This assumes that the electrical path around the neutral plate is more resistant than going through the neutal plate.