Diesel ecomony?
 

Ok, so i have done alot to an 01' ford focus ZX3 and an 87 toyota MR2 but i purchased an 06 jetta TDI a few years ago and am now realizing that diesel is up and coming in the U.S. but still has some drawbacks with fuel economy.
So, i have the TDI, 5 speed manual, all stock. The air intake, calipers, tires, hell everything is pretty good. It's the 06 NOT the 06.5 they made to fill demand which cost several thousand more.
I had some trouble with this car in the past, when i first got it, and had the engine replaced, the clutch and transmission three times because of a HUGE issue with the transmission siezing while driving. But now, it's all fixed.
The past year, since getting the new engine, i have been averaging about 40mpg. about 70% is highway and being in NJ that doesn't account for much real highway driving. Still 40mpg isn't bad but i wanted to explore more with the diesel and see if i can push that a little more.
Any advice or has anyone tried to 'modivate' the tdi's for economy and reduce its diesel consumption? Since the 'new' diesel cars are relatively unknown in america i'm def expecting some mixed results, but let's give it a try and see what happens!

I would first do the things that apply to all vehicles like:

-increase tire air pressure to max side wall
-look into aero mods
-look into grill block (for aero and faster warm up)
-get a scangauge 2 (the best little gauge for MPG)

also, maybe look into a block heater. this may give you varying results but it will cut back on warm up times.

if your car already has an MPG meter on it, you may not want to spend the $160 or so on the scangauge but it has made a world of difference in my car.

most of this isn't diesel specific but it is a good place to start. I say start with the basic and easy stuff and work towards the more complicated things. I would first get a scangauge and alter your driving style. several people attribute driving style to a 30% increase. I have always driven slow so mine wasn't that significant.

good luck

Be aware than the Scangauge may or may not be accurate on a TDI. There are accuracy issues with some diesels, while others are fine.

While driving, aim to keep the rpm low,low,low. That's where a diesel thrives.

Yeah, a scanguage is out of the question for me because it doesn't work with my vehicle :-( The jeep liberty diesel and the 05-06 tdi's don't work (or early mkV tdi), but the 06.5 up and the MK IV TDI's it works fine. I tried it with the one from my 01 Focus, and sadly, it just read 9999 all the time for everything. That was a sad day.
Grill block i have, but it concerns me since the air intake is at the front of the grill and i have the skidplate on. I replaced the front end with a newer black front end from the high speed hatchback. Any reccomendations for that intake?
I thought about the block heater but was concerned about the additional weight. The new TDI's come with an internal block heater coil for the fuel to allow for cold weather startup by keeping the car in AC for a minute before starting. So i was a little concerned about additional weight for a blockheater, but i'm no expert on that.
As for the RPM, i have a question about that. I try to keep my TDI about 2.5-3k RPM. Granted the TDI's have 1k less RPM than their gasoline counterparts. I found anywhere between 2-4k rpm to be it's 'sweetspot' for picking up. When staying below 2 or 3k rpm will i risk making the engine work much harder in order to slowly speed up rather than boosting my rpm's slightly?

oooh, would a bump start on a dielsel be a good idea? Especially with suchj high torque i'd be afraid of cracking my clutch housing, or twisting some motor mounts.

I've done hundreds of bump-starts in a diesel with no trouble.

I don't have any diesel experience, but I'm very interested in finding out what works for you. A 2006 Jetta TDI would be a definite posibility for my future. I currently have a 2008 Rabbit with the 2.5L I5 gasser and 5 speed manual; I really like a lot about it, but a Jetta TDI would be an improvement. The Jetta is like a Rabbit but less embarassing, and the TDI...well, it's a diesel! :)

Can you tell me more about the transmission seizing problem? :(

Also, can you tell me about your gear ratios? How many RPM at 70mph in 5th? I wonder if VW gives you the same low geared close ratio tranny that I've got. I bet with decent ratios I'd get another 10mpg.

I imagine the diesel would do better at low RPM than the gasoline engine. Mine is very happy to run WOT almost from idle when I shift at 1200-1500 rpm and enter the next gear at 900-1200. I normally don't get above 1500 rpm until I run out of gears (no 6th to shift into!). When I first got the car, I was shifting more like you, but every time I tried shifting lower, my FE improved significantly. My results run counter to what many people think, which is that the engine needs to run lightly loaded at higher RPM or it will waste fuel by struggling.

"Making the engine work harder" is not necessarily a problem, in and of itself. Gas engines generally produce work most efficiently when running at full load -- putting out all the power it can at its current RPM (google for 'BSFC' to learn more). Part of it is pumping losses at the throttle, which is a component that your diesel does not have (right?). I don't know if the same strategy applies.

I was not aware of the issue with diesels and the scangauge. there is also the kiwi. I know verry little about it other than it is expensive. it has many more features than the scanguage. it may be more compatible with the diesels than the scangauge. it may be something to look into.

one thing about your grill block. I purposefully take in warmer air from under the hood (actually from the exhaust manifold) to get my intake temperatures higher. not sure if this will benefit a diesel but it may be worth a try.

Thanks Palemelnesian, i will practice bump starting soon, hopefully that'll help my stop light coasting mpg.

Oooo, i like the rabbits. I wanted an 06 TDI Golf but i just couldn't find any. Good for me, though, they have the MKIV motor.
I love my TDI, i was getting an average of 33mpg on the first engine and i think it was an issue with the engine. I had the car a month and the clutch stuck to the floor in rushhour in the fast lane on the Garden State Parkway, those familiar with the road know how bad that it. The dealership said the tranny siezed and killed my clutch, both were replaced after fighting with them and telling them it wasn't how i drive. Second time the clutch started whinning, like a jet aircraft taking off. Took it in and the tranny again... it also destroyed my clutch and bother were replaced. I was driving in February of 06 in Vermont in the middle of a blizzard and a car ran me off the road. I rolled the car on its side but eveything checked out a-ok. Purged the brakes and was back on the road with just a little body damage. 8 months later i was driving down the road and was speeding up from a stop light my tranny siezed again, this time because my foot was on the gas when the tranny siezed the engine kept trying to turn the gears and ended up ripping 3 out of 4 motor mounts thanks to the torque. Dealer said it was because of the accident of the autobody that did the repairs (yeah right). Whatever, i got it fixed and a new engine because the ripped motor mount cracked the block. After that my MPG was great! I delieve part of the problem was that the car i bought was one of the last 06's made before the 06.5, it was sitting on the lot for a long time, and had 2k miles on it so obviously someone drive it before me and seeign as i used to work at a dealer i know how abused new cars can be.
As for my gear rations...
1st gear i redline at about 25 mph, i shift around 3k rpm about 12-15 mph depending on how cold the engine is.
2nd red lines at about 45 to 50 mph, i shift at 40mph or 3.5k rpm when i feel like getting frisky, or 30 to 35 mph at 2.5k rpm.
3rd is tricky, i usually keep that gear until 60mph at around 3k rpm, or i'll shift at 50mph at 2k rpm.
4th i stick in 90% of my highway driving. At 60mph i'm running just under 2.5k rpm. at 80mph i'm runing at 3.5k rpm.
5th gear is my baby. I understand why people in automatic 5spd card don't realize the have a 5th gear. At 70mph in 5th i'm running about 2.3k rpm, maybe a little higher. There's not a huge difference between 4th and 5th but you feel it in the handling. The car seems more relaxed in 5th but in the snow it's not worth it because handling suffers.
With the tdi you MUST do over 1500 rpm alot of times or else you will not speed up at all, and there is no resistance in the clutch so shifting at ultra low rpms can cause a stall. Trust me, it's not just me on this one, i know i'm not the BEST driver out there but i'm pretty good, and people much better than me stall it out too in low rpm shifting.
You're right, the same strategy does not apply with a new generation TDI. Def with an old generation tdi which is an gas engine converted to run on diesel fuel. But the new ones are diesel specific, designed from the ground up to be a mini powerplant. As for the whole BSFC calculations.... lets just say i suck at math alot.
I'll get a more accurate RPM rate tonight on my way home, highway and city.
The biggest thing i have done to increase the fuel economy is teh grill block. I filled in the grill holes with 1/2" foam pipe insulation and stuffed it in the grill holes, i also put a piece of heat resistant plastic BEHIND the grill covered in aluminum tape to refect the heat back at the engine (same stuff used for repairing muffler holes but much cheaper). I want to cover it the plastic with a reflictive sun visor cut to fit. That made it great this time of year, but i'll have to do something else once summer rolls around because it's going to be a hot one.
So far, the economy for TDI that i have noticed has been driving slow. At 80mph i get 38-42 mph on highway, driving at 65 i get 45. not a huge difference but it's something, the problem with driving 65 around here is tehre are so many aggressive drivers or the police will stop you for going too slow (happened to me once, they though i was drunk because i was going the speed limit).
I'm also going to try bump starting the car and see if that helps too with traveling downhill or to stoplights.
My motto with the TDI is, if you don't use the turbo you're doing good. but i'm no expert. I'll try your RPM stuff this week, too, i'm willing to give anything a shot, lol.

sorry, i just realized i should have posted this is the diesel section. Sorry, about that, guys and gals!

Heheh, I didn't even notice that it was in the wrong section. I moved it to the diesel section.

PaleMelanesian has a great description of exactly how to bump start. After reading his description, it became very easy and comfortable for me; doing it his way doesn't feel like it's ever going to damage or even wear anything any more than every day driving (less clutch wear than a common start from a stop, I suspect). I don't know how well it would work with a diesel.

Your 1st and 2nd sound similar to mine, then the rest are significantly taller. I'm in 5th by 25-30mph, though I run a lot lower RPM than you. In 5th at 70mph I'm running 3000 RPM, same as your 4th.

If I intended to keep my Rabbit for a long time I'd definitely look into getting the same transmission you have. I hate cruising at 3000rpm, there's plenty of torque for highway cruising at 2000rpm.

Oh, and it sounds like you've got the same clutch. It feels like a video game clutch, doesn't it? It doesn't feel like it's hooked up to anything.

Ok, found it....

:D I'm coming back to haunt myself!

Some great info on https://www.tdiclub.com

1400+ miles on one tank in a Passat Diesel https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=268702

Wow! Talk about great FE, and way practical too...

Nice! 58 mpg with one of these:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...I-wagon-B4.jpg

Thanks for moving it into the right section for me.
Ok, so for bumping i have gotten it down pretty well, and i really don't feel it at all until i hit lower speeds (25mph or less), the rest of the time i don't even realize it started back up unless i look at my guages. Yay for new quieter diesels.
Ok, so here is my RPM reading for my 'normal' NJ driving.
1st gear shifting at 20 mph about 3.2-3.4 rpm
2nd shifting at 35 with 3.3 rpm
3rd shifting at 55 to 60 (depending on traffic) around 3.5 rpm
4th i shift around 70 at 2.3 rpm or 80 at 2.6 rpm
5th at 70 is 2.1 rpm and 80 2.4 rpm.
No big difference between 4th and 5th at higher speed, but i have been shifting into 5th around 40 mph and sticking around 1.4 rpm maybe 1.2 rpm.

Just through an 8th of a tank of gas and already noticing a bit of improvement. Usually i get about 150 miles on the first quarter tank and about 100 or 120 on the next three quarter tanks. On 1/8 of a tank i'm at 120 miles (I drive alot, about 45 miles one way to work and i drive an addition 50 miles south yesterday to Trenton). So, all-in-all not bad, but we'll see, i fill up at a half tank or 1/4 tank. If i had to guestimate right now i would say i'm getting about 43 mpg, and that's with practicing bumping and a few 'slip ups' with speed because of idiot drivers and rush hour. It's hard to go slow in NJ.
Also, i have been chasing trucks in order to get a little breeze from their backside, lol. Going at 70mpg and starting at rougly a 1second spread between putting the car in neutral and just coasting i can get about 5 miles before i need to catch up and am in a 7 second spread. That's with my tires filled up to only normal psi, too, and NOT counting going uphill, only on flat road.
I've been shifting at 2k rpm or 2.3 rpm regularly. Concidering i have a total of 6rpm to work with (as opposed to the 8 in the gas counterpart) it's not bad. Uphill a regulated 2.3 rpm seems to do fine.
Speed is going to be an ongoing issue for me. Around here if the sign says 25, go 40. If it says 55, go 75. If it says 65, go 90. So i know my FE won't be as good as someone in a much more rural setting. Since i'm by the shore i also have alot of hills, so that kills it alot, too. And my driveway should be used for rock climbing.
So, i'll keep you guys updated, if i can get this thing to 50mpg i'll be thrilled, if i can get it to 60mpg highway i'll be ecstatic but that's for my next trip to Springfield Massachusetts or Dartmouth College (too bad i can't skip over Connecticut, eh?)
Any ideas with some other stuff i can do too? I'm worried about body shape changing because the car is under lien... :-/ Lightening it would be no problem. Do you think only using a half tank of gas instead of filling her up completely would add a little benefit too?

Where to start......
 

A grill block shouldn't obstruct the intercooler. Leave this air flow path open. You'll gain more from a colder air charge than you might from an aerodynamic standpoint.

Block heaters, like a "FrostHeater", adds all of five pounds, cuts warm-up time to zero.

"The new TDI's come with an internal block heater coil for the fuel to allow for cold weather startup by keeping the car in AC for a minute before starting."
On what planet?

Keep the rpm as low as is possible, and in as high a gear as is possible. Obviously if you need to accelerate briskly you'll have to downshift, or have already shifted lower in anticipation, but driving at 3k in 4th, when no acceleration is needed, is nowhere near as fuel efficient as using 5th at the same road speed. Best fuel mileage is going to be at about 1200~1400 rpm in 5th. If you have to drive at 30 mph because of traffic, might as well let the engine loaf too. You can be in 5th, easily, at 55 mph. There is nothing to be gained by delaying 5th until 70 unless you are at Englishtown on import night. Peak torque is about 2000 rpm. Higher than that and there is less torque, and less thermal efficiency, too. Torque at 3400 rpm is somewhere around 130 lb*ft. Guess where else torque equals about 130 lb*ft? Around 1700 rpm. Shift sooner and slow the engine down unless you need the acceleration.

"i was getting an average of 33mpg on the first engine...I had the car a month and the clutch stuck to the floor...The dealership said the tranny siezed and killed my clutch, both were replaced after fighting with them and telling them it wasn't how i drive. Second time the clutch started whinning, like a jet aircraft taking off. Took it in and the tranny again... it also destroyed my clutch and bother were replaced. I was driving in February of 06 in Vermont in the middle of a blizzard and a car ran me off the road. I rolled the car on its side but eveything checked out a-ok. Purged the brakes and was back on the road with just a little body damage. 8 months later i was driving down the road and was speeding up from a stop light my tranny siezed again, this time because my foot was on the gas when the tranny siezed the engine kept trying to turn the gears and ended up ripping 3 out of 4 motor mounts thanks to the torque. Dealer said it was because of the accident of the autobody that did the repairs (yeah right). Whatever, i got it fixed and a new engine because the ripped motor mount cracked the block. seeign as i used to work at a dealer i know how abused new cars can be."
Absolutely nothing I can say to dispute that you know abused cars.

"... (too bad i can't skip over Connecticut, eh?)" Can you understand why I avoid New Jersey and the drivers there?

I am so jealous. :o

If traffic allows it, you should really hang back further. A common 53' box trailer has a good draft out to 3 seconds distance. 1 second is probably dangerous, but also the air can be too turbulent at 1 second and hurt your draft. Then there's exploding tires and kicked up rocks to worry about...

The 2.5L redlines at 6200rpm.

It's ok. If adjusting your speed isn't an option, then you'll just have to concentrate on other strategies. With your tall gearing and decent .31 aerodynamic drag coefficient, you're well equipped to minimize losses from high speeds.

Hills are like forced Pulse & Glide, or if you're willing to EOC (as it sounds like you are) they are great for EOCing.

I drive through the northeastern corner of it every day, cutting across from RI to MA.


My VW is leased, and I did some decent (thought ugly) grille blocking.
https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=8597
A few screwholes in the fog grilles will go unnoticed if I make a half-hearted effort to fill them before returning it. The upper grille block is held in place entirely by friction.

There's a link in my sig about weight reduction. In short, I strongly doubt it will help, though any of it that you can do for free is worth a try if you want to. Diesels especially are known for not being sensitive to weight changes (witness all the testimonies from diesel pickup owners that towing a trailer weighing more than their truck has barely affected their FE).

Driving with a half tank of fuel is an idea I've always thought would be practical for cars where weight makes a big difference, except for the problem of it making you entirely unable to measure your FE.

Just one thing noted about staying out of the boost: It's a bad idea. You'll get soot buildup on the vanes which will lead to a seal failure. Be sure to once and a while get it nice and HOT to keep it clean. Not all the time, but for the amount of driving you do, at least once a week get on it.

I'm not a TDI driver, but a diesel one. The megane is an "old" turbo diesel without direct injection (dT), while the scenic is a common rail turbo diesel with direct injection (dCi).

The megane has no FE display. The scenic has a FE display but it displays only l/100km and only over 35 km/h, so I can't know the l/h consumption when the car is idle or at slow speed. No car is EOBD (European name for OBDII) compatible (mandatory in Europe since 2004 for diesel) so my SGII doesn't work.

On both cars I closed the front grill, except the turbo intercooler (as there isn't a temperature gauge for it). We have no heat problem, but we keep a eye on the coolant temperature gauge.

Engines are very different :

• megane (1997) : comb.EPA 35.1 mpg(US), 132 ft.lbs at 2000 rpm, 95 hp at 4250 rpm, 2491 lb, 21.4 sq.ft. & Cd 0.31
• scenic (2001) : comb.EPA 39.8 mpg(US), 150 ft.lbs at 1500 rpm, 105 hp at 4000 rpm, 2844 lb, 25.3 sq.ft. & Cd 0.33

About speeds at 2000 rpm at different gears :

• megane : 10.7, 19.4, 30.2, 41.1, 52.8
• scenic : 10.3, 18.8, 29.1, 39.7, 51.0

My best tanks are 50mpg in scenic and 55mpg in megane.

Despite the scenic has its best torque at a lower rpm, I can accelerate from 1100 rpm in 5th with megane, while I can barely do it from 1250 rpm with scenic. This implies in megane I can easily shift at 1700 rpm while I have to be near 2000 rpm in scenic.

Last June I couldn't keep a steady speed at 1500 rpm in 5th in megane. I changed the diesel grade. The best grade has both better cetane and a lot of additives, noticeably cleaning additives. During first tank the engine was accepting lower rpm and after several tanks accepted to accelerate from 1250 rpm in 5th.

I changed oil and air filters on both cars recently. Oil has been changed from 10W40 (mid-synthetic) to 5W40 (fully synthetic). In megane I can now accelerate from 1100 rpm in 5th. My wife easily forgets to ecodrive, she is now at 44 mpg in scenic while she was stuck at 40 mpg before. In both cars, my butt-o-meter tells me that they have more power :) Because of that, I changed my driving habits and use pulse & coast (in neutral with engine on) at mid speed (40-55mph) and immediately beat my best tank (which was a summer tank with cardboard rear wheel skirts).

I do love doing pulse and coast in megane. I find it easier than in scenic, may be because megane is lighter and has better Cd and frontal area.

Shifting as low as your engine permits is great. Staying as long as possible in neutral (engine on or off as you feel comfortable) is also great. This last point is improved by overinflated tires (max sidewall of 51 in megane while at 47 in scenic 'cause it's too uncomfortable at max sidewall of 51). I just installed coroplast rear wheel skirts on megane so I hope improve even more, while freezing morning should be gone :)

Denis.

Quick update hil i have the time at work.
Got my fillup, and my fuel economy has greatly imporved, even with flying to work and rush hour traffic this morning.
i am getting a fill up this afternoon but at a 1/2 tank where i normally fill up i only have 250-300miles on the trip. Today, i have 350. Not a great improvement but appreciated. Tires will be maxed out tomorrow because all the snow will be gone by then.

Congratulations! :thumbup:

You should enter your car in "The Garage" and start a gaslog. It will keep an accurate record and calculate your actual MPG for you.

So, what have you done to get your improvement?

Thanks, i'll look into the gas log.
Well, things to improve it have been drafting, especially off smaller trucks and large pickups. In rush hour or congested areas youi're less than 10 ft away from people regardless. Keeps me on my toes.
Turning the engine off for coasting and bump starting had helped a great deal.
Yes, driving habits :-D
And i blocked the front grill a while ago but this is the first time i have really driven the car since then.
Next fill up will be welcome (never thought i'd say that), but i'm not sure how much better it will be just this once. I need to get my oil changed (it's way past due) and get new brakes. My front grill is being replaced as well as the passenger side mirror due to someone sideswiping me while on a highway a few weeks ago. Once those repairs are complete it should also help with my air resistance.

42.9mpg
Not bad, and a slight improvement from the 39.2 mpg i was getting before. So, we will see what happens this next time, it should be much better because my driving is now more controlled and i'm not trying to figure out what to do. I know the places to coast, what speeds to coast at, and how much to push to get up a hill in 5th at 40mph.
I'll keep you guys posted! Thanks so much for all the help!

My lifetime in the smart is just a tick under 60 MPG US but it should be over the 60 mark once the summer comes. I don't try for good fuel economy. The people in Canada who do, are averaging 71 MPG US lifetime.


Keeping off major boost without lugging would be ideal, but without a ScanGauge (which does work on a smart cdi) it'd be hard to tell if you are lugging or not.

I also drove a 2006 model Renault Scenic 1.9 dCi 8000 km across Europe in the fall of 2005. It was a very nice car and driven very hard, it returned over 36 US MPG with five up and luggage for a month. Vmax on the Autobahn was 205 km/h (127 MPH) and we drove it in big cities like Paris and Rome..... Driven sensibly it would be a 45 US MPG car.

@groar: we were near Toulouse last April, actually a bit south of it, driving from Carcassonne through to Messanges in the Landes. Very nice country down there. The new-ish Autoroute that passes by Tarbes and Pau is boring but the Pyrenees are beautiful even from a distance. Pau is quite a spectacular site.

Diesels economy
 

Hi,

Volkswagen absolutely sold turbocharged fuel-injected diesels in the United States. I know because I drove one at a dealership in Colorado Springs. It very quick for such a small engine. I don?t know if it?s still being offered, but if it?s not it could have something to do with reliability. Lots of people buy according to Consumer Reports recommendations and right now CR is big on Japanese stuff.

Yup, those are the "TDI" models discussed earlier in this thread.

But he didn't say the magic word: "direct".
Turbocharged fuel injected diesels have been around since, well, turbochargers were put on diesel engines, at least the early 80's with regards to VW. Those were indirectly injected. The fuel was injected into a pre-chamber in the head where the combustion began. From there it spread through a port into the piston / cylinder volume.
The turbocharged direct injection diesel injects directly into the piston / cylinder space. Some VW model or other have been sold in the US with versions of the TDI every year since late 1995 (1996 model year).

are the early (u.s. )tdi's good engines? how about transaxles? im looking for an engine, trans, harness (or a whole wrecked car with good parts), etc to transplant into a smaller lighter car.

Re: Diesel ecomony?
 

Sounds like high rpm:s. I have some experience with diesels and using the lowest possible rpm above idle is usually the most fuel effeicient even if the turbo doesn't charge much. I try to keep the rev:s between 1.1k and 1.4k for normal driving and slightly higher up to 2-2.4 for short bursts when accelerating fast. Slower speed - closer towards idle.

This usually means 1:st gear one or two carlengths unless creeping forward really slow. 2:nd from 15km/h. 3:rd from 29-, 4:th 40-, 5:th 51-. 6:th 70-km/h (42mph). This is also how my current automatic shifts with moderate to medium acceleration. It wants the rev:s to be 1.1-1.2k as much as possible.

Pretty old thread but just a word on the scangauge II. I use one on a 2011 Golf TDI. Works great. X-Gauges created for EGT to monitor DPF regens, boost for turbo, intercooler charge air temp, HP, etc.

I have an 03 Jetta TDI. The key to fuel economy in a diesel is knowing your power band and what RPM your engine puts out peak torque. On my car that is between 1900 and 2000 RPM. That puts my road speed at 55-60. I keep it at 55 and get 52 MPG on average. This applies to your shifting and cruising around town too. You don't rev a diesel to 2500 or 3000+ rpm unless you are trying to climb a hill. You will actually get up to speed faster if you shift at lower RPMS. I will normally not shift beyond 2250 RPM. Your torque begins to drop after 2000 RPM because you are outside the power band. I don't overfill tires or practice any kind of hyper mileing tactics. Fuel economy is all about RPMs, powerbands, and safe following distances in order to minimize wasteful braking.

Max torque on even small Diesels is about 1750 RPM so unless your in a hurry change up by 2000 RPM, drive ahead ease the throttle to arrive as traffic clears, every time you
touch the brakes you are turning fuel into wear and wast heat, but body panels are expensive so drive safely.