politics and gassavers
 

it seems that here lately there have been more and more threads about political crap. that seems to be what it is too is crap. mostly just to start controversy.

I truly hate politics because it is always the same story. my side is right and yours is wrong (regardless of which side is talking).

during the election and about 6 months before it, the forum lit up with political crap and I was hoping that all of it would die down once it was all said and done. I was wrong, horribly horribly wrong.

I come here to talk of ways to better the economy of my vehicle. I try to share things that I have experienced and add to the wealth of knowledge that has made our vehicles much better than stock and in some cases, ones of envy among the SUV crowd during the days of $4+/gallon gas.

I just wonder why all of the political threads aren't posted on political forums so we can keep the fuel economy threads in the fuel economy fourms. there must be more than enough political forums for the biggest conservative or liberal or whatever you are out there. I know that we have a general discussion area but it seems that more times than not, it has little to do with adding to the conversation and more to do with purposefully upsetting others that don't hold your particular beliefs.

one final statement and I'm done: I HATE POLITICS!!!!!!!




anyone want to talk about saving gas?

All we can say is stay tuned... The moderators and GasSavers.org staff have been working on a revised user agreement for quite some time to address this, and other issues.

On Gassavers, the political discussions are (supposed to be, anyway) confined to one particular forum. Anybody can visit this forum, or not, as they please. Anyone can read a particular thread or not, as they please. I, for one, happen to enjoy reading SOME of the political discussion. If there is a discussion I don't care to read, I don't read it.

It's kinda like a radio...If you don't want to listen to Limbaugh, Boortz, O'Riley or any of, uh, THAT crowd, there are two knobs (if you have an old radio) or a few buttons (on a newer radio) that you can use to change the station, or turn it OFF! These days, I find myself using those knobs or buttons a LOT! I don't want to see those guys stifled (despite what I may think or say about them) so I exercise my right to not listen to them (or to the commercials of their sponsors).

It works the same way here. There is plenty of other content other than the political stuff...one should feel free to contribute to the discussions one wishes, and if there is something one does not feel that they are interested in, one is free to bypass that part of the site.

As someone says on another website I occasionally visit, "My time is done, and I thank you for yours".

Me too. It really hasn't died down anywhere near as much as I expected.

As Jay says, we've been discussing the issue and we're cooking up some changes.

I like my Beef medium rare and my politics medium raw.

I am not someones programmed mannequin and never will be.

Don't change a thing.

I think JoeBob stated it perfectly, regardless of whether we may or may not agree on any political viewpoint. In fact if we agreed on everything, it would get pretty boring.

I thought the off-topic section was for just that.
It doesn't even show up for visitors any more.

You have to be logged in to view the off-topic forums. This has been in effect for a while now. We are trying to boost our search rankings by forcing the search engines to only crawl the main forums, so the off-topic posts don't dilute our relevance.

i respect you Beef, Jay, and HC, but in this case i'm w/ JoeBob and Gary...

keep it unchanged. i'd rather discuss these types of issues w/ mostly informed individuals here, rather than viper spitting forums elsewhere. besides, this site is my only contact in regard to the web, other than locals on facebook.

i sent someone here a political PM/email yesterday, and he was well pleased w/ my sharing. i've learned a lot about the views of those different than mine here. the majority of those i have face to face contact w/ do not even know why they believe or vote a certain way.

this could be a place to help others save gas, money, and even vote or hold their local politicians accountable in terms of energy efficiency.

i believe politics to be on a bigger scale than saving gas, but i do understand it's not the endeavor of this site. political discussions aren't pretty, but putting off or avoiding them is ugly.

It doesn't bother me much. If I step into a thread that contains views I don't share, I simply leave. It isn't important.

The important stuff is taken care of at the ballot box.

Precisely, and by those who care enough to vote.

regards
gary

true, but i like Boortz's view on the right to vote.

lol all politicians are corrupt find me one who isnt and ill find you a liar.....

do we have any canadians here? Whats it like up there? As close as we are we get more news of europe than u guys...

I just read about "his belief about who should be allowed to vote". Sounds like he'd like to go back to just white, male landowners being allowed to vote. OK, I'd still be able to vote. That's not the world I want to go back to.

I wonder if that is his real, personal belief, or if that is just a radio persona, carefully crafted to appeal to his target audience?

no, i understand it to be based on welfare. those dependent on the govt would not be eligible to vote. i think he often jokes about an intelligence test as well.

While it's our constitional right to vote, it's our responsibility to be an informed voter.

Just like there are people that shouldn't be given command of Wal-Mart shopping carts, automobiles, and children, there are people that we might not want to be in command of a vote. The sheer uninformed stupidity of some people should prevent them from being allowed into the polling place.

And that would be completely divorced from their political affiliation...

absolutely correct!

i always site the example of a corporation. i wouldn't want the janitor(or myself for that matter if i was uninformed) to vote in which direction my company would go if given a vote.

in the same token, it is his right(the janitor) to educate himself and work hard to the point of promotion. if time and skill allows, he could at some point make executive decisions from the top.

the entitlements argument is a weak one at best. entitlements can and do ruin nations--see Thomas Jefferson quotes. take me as an example...my IQ is very average, and i did not finish my formal education. i work hard at what i do, serving the best i can while trying to better myself and my company.

financial advisers site example after example of how individuals and families could actually live on what they make IF wiser decisions were made. perhaps our education/political system should focus less on sharing wealth, and more on wise spending and cutting waste.

oh, wait, federal and local govt can't even do that, so how could they teach it?! the sick thing is, those that REALLY need help can't get all they need as a result of "milkers" of the system. you know the morons that will continue to vote a certain way for certain continuation of entitlements?

WE NEED...voter reform, REAL creation of jobs, govt spending reform, tax cuts, welfare reform, healthcare reform withOUT govt interference. these are very tough political issues, but they are NOT being addressed properly. and that's my view on and problem with politics--and i will quote Mr. Incredible, "...completely divorced from their(any) political affiliation."

i don't think ANYONE in congress or the white house can bring this difficult yet necessary REAL change, so i recommend voting out ALL incumbents the next 2 elections, democrack or republicant! oh, BTW, if you're unhappy w/ your local politicians, vote them out as well.

If that were to actually happen, would the cure be worse than the disease?

Our government would be in a weakened state of accumulated wisdom/knowledge/know-how and wind up at the mercy of both entrenched lobbyists and the lifetime government bureaucrats. There would be a time of vulnerability before strong government could overcome those vultures.

Could it survive that long? Could it come out the other side strong enough to beat back the forces of sloth and largesse?

don't get me wrong, govt is necessary, just not this growing form of it. the cure could be worse than the disease in the short term, at least for some.

what really sets me off is that most of the private sector is cutting costs and lowering/maintaining prices while the govt, at all levels is raising/creating taxes and/or increasing fees/rates.

Jefferson feared career politicians and recommended cleaning house every 20 years.

We are about 200 years overdue.

I say can all the incumbents, it will put the newcomers on notice.

Will that produce a better or worse political environment?

I don't think it could get worse.

It may take a Constitutional Convention.

regards
Gary

agreed, IL just increased its license plate stickers AGAIN last year it was $78 (up from $68 the previous year) this year its a whopping 90 freakin bucks!

Like it or not....your gas mileage is affected by politics.
As is the car you drive, how and where you drive it, the equipment it is required to have, the fuel it uses and much more.
AND your ability to legally tinker with it.

Fact is....the majority of people who do not participate in politics have allowed small interest groups to become the 'tail that wags the dog' and allowed government to rapidly take away more and more of your freedoms.

shatto, the problem is that excessive political talk gives this site a sour demeanor, creates enemies out of members who could otherwise discuss other things nicely, and runs off members who are here to talk about things like driving techniques and modifications. This site is primarily about driving techniques and modifications.

There are politics that are directly related to fuel economy, but most of the political discussions I see are not.

Sounds like time for a command decision.

so why not just make a subforum for politics and be done with it? if you dont like it dont go in there. problem solved.

i was listening to a radio program on the way home from work which i had never heard before. the host pretty much conveyed my thought on politics...

for many years he was a registered independent, not interested in what the 2 major parties offered. but, because he could not vote in the primaries nor attend political conventions, he decided to join a party to REALLY have his voice heard.

like me, he is conservative and decided that the republican party MOST closely represented him. so he changed his affiliation and started to attend local republican conventions.

he found out quickly that there were those in the party that actually put values and country above party, BUT they were few and far in between. he talked of frustration and anger that those in the local meetings would promote big names over individuals w/ integrity.

he(and i) understands the "need" to support winnable candidates, but that most of them are corrupt or put party first at all costs. this is what we have RIGHT NOW in congress and the white house as well.

NOW is the time to act, before this nation becomes far removed from what it was created for. my kids will not live in "the home of the free" by the time they are adults if our present course continues.

THIS is why i talk about politics...because the future of my country and my children depend on it!!!

^^ doesnt get any better than this. hardcore american values right here folks.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I guess the two political camps here, as they relate to fuel savings are: Liberals, who want to save gas to "save the world" and do the right thing ecologically, and Conservatives, who believe saving gas is good business and it is, therefore, the right thing to do.

Since we here are likely a tad bit above the general population in smarts, understanding, and active in doing things, it would be natural that we would be a little more outspoken on things that affect the use of fuel. Much of what affects our use of fuels IS political...regulations on fuel, regulations on things that use fuel, whacky regulations, regulations that are needed (in whichever direction we tend to lean), and the price of fuel as it relates to the economy (which is a very broad and contentious area).

It's just a natural thing to do to discuss these things with our peers here. The problem arises when the discussion leaves the nice and heads straight for the nasty. Emotions over ideas, it's easy to do.

But, like I tell my daughter, too many people don't know the difference between talking a lot and actually having a lot to say.

good post my friend, but i'd like to add to this statement...

i suggest to my girls that they allow NO ONE to dictate their mood or type of day to be had. often times in life, and here as well, we get our feelings hurt over minor differences of opinion.

of course things can get nasty in political discussions, but if we'd stop to consider the other view and be courteous...well the rest would take care of itself.

i typically get more aggravated over a lazy or irresponsible person, than one of a differing opinion. the problem is, entitlements involve much of what i consider to be lazy individuals, and THAT is politics!

got this in an email today. good stuff. the comment about young voters really struck me hard...

CHANGE

Not long ago I read a joke... It said all the politicians running for president are promising change to the American people. We send them billions and billions of tax dollars and they send us the change.
Funny? Not really; there is too much truth in it to be funny.
But that got me to thinking... They all promise change.

A restoration that would take us back in time to a place where things ran better, smoother and life was more enjoyable.

Change? That, in truth, is what they have been giving us all along.

We used to have a strong dollar....
Politicians changed that.

Marriage used to be sacred...
Politicians have changed that.

We used to be respected around the world... Politicians changed that.

We used to have a strong manufacturing economy... Politicians changed that.

We used to have lower tax structures... Politicians changed that.

We used to enjoy more freedoms... Politicians changed that.

We used to be a large exporter of American-made goods... Politicians changed that.

We used to teach patriotism in schools... Politicians changed that.

We used to educate children in schools... Politicians changed that.

We used to enforce LEGAL citizenship... Politicians changed that.

We used to have affordable food & gas prices...
Politicians changed that, too... and one could go on and on with this list.

What hasn't been changed, politicians are promising to change that as well, if you will elect them.

When, oh when, is America going to sit back with open eyes and look at what we once were and where we have come and say "enough is enough"?

The trouble is, America 's youthful voters today don't know of the great America that existed forty and fifty years ago.
They see the world as if it has always existed as it is now.

When will we wake up? Tomorrow may be too late. When will America realize... Politicians are what is wrong with America ? This goes for BOTH parties... Republicans and Democrats, there is no difference anymore... they all do only what they can to be re-elected, not what is best for the citizens!

What is needed is for the Constitution to be amended to limit all Senators and Representatives to TWO terms in office like the President.

Oh, by the way, no big pension either, social security just like the rest of us. How do they rate bigger and better entitlements than the people THEY WORK FOR? WHICH IS US!!
Being a politician shouldn't be a person's life work but rather a call to public service then back to being an honest hard-working citizen.
Politicians are no more than housekeepers and janitors... unfortunately they act like they own the building.
GO GREEN....RECYCLE CONGRESS!
PASS THIS ONE AROUND.. FOR A CHANGE...

From one of the younger people here, a MAJOR problem i see that that email points out is the fact that school history classes teach students about dawn of america up until just before the vietnam war, and that is kinda swept under the rug and all patriotic.

we spent maybe a week on the vietnam war (learning dumb **** like famous battles, generals, dates, some random pointless guy, some poem, song but never really WHY we got involved WHY we did what we did WHY after we changed presidents it took a bad turn. no cant that would drag politics into the classroom which is decided by the parents, schoolboard, state legislature, etc. God forbid little timmy learned we dropped napalm on villages and what really happened to all the people who got vaporized by OUR A-bomb...Parents nowadays are more worried about little suise being "forced" to say "under god" in the pledge of alegence than what thier future holds and what thier being taught.

I think in one of my highschool history classes we actually made it upto and not much past vietnam war. i have no idea wtf happened in this country from after vietnam ended till the early-mid 90's when i was old enough to comprehend what was goin on.

I did take a ancient history college class that i loved because there was no bullsh*t just flat out facts not trying to make someone into a hero just cold evidence for why stuff happened. unfortunately most college students hated highschool history so much because it was boring, mundane, etc so they dont take a real college level history class and actually learn the truith about america and all its skeletons in its many many closets.

A good book to read is: "Lies my teacher told me" explains in depth that i just said above pretty much and does tell about how textbooks have changed so much to paint a pretty picture and always make the USA the good guy.

lol im off my soapbox now...

Yes they can...the test of a friendship is being able to still be friends even though disagreeing...

I've had many discussions in person like those which have sprung up on here, at work, over myriad pitchers of beer, or sitting naked in a Jacuzzi (with or without beers) and have remained friends with my fellow arguers, whether or not we agreed.

VetteOwner, I lived through most of the Vietnam era, and I still don't really know just why we were there...

One of the sad things about America today is the limitations of choice.
You are either a liberal or a conservative, Democrat or Republican.

I pity the person who assumes to categorize me as one or the other, because they have been indoctrinated into a position where their judgement is irrelevant, and their categorizations are superfluous.

I am neither nor am I either. I am myself and my wife is just about the opposite of myself. In spite of that we have managed to find a way to peacefully coexist for over two decades. To this day I do not know who she voted for for President.

Do I think the Earth is warming? There seems to be evidence to support that conclusion based on empirical observations. On the other hand I remember the cold snap of the early eighties in the Florida Keys when people were worried about the coral reefs dying if the ocean temperatures dropped below 60 degrees.

The last two seasons here have been exceptionally mild.

If our planet is warming then won't the foliage expand its territory and absorb more carbon?

Should I trust the statements of people who profit from a certain position. I find very few people left on this planet that would actually support a position that would directly affect their personal wealth.

Every day in my business I was faced with the choice of honesty or wealth. I did not consider it a rational choice, but I know many do consider it and choose wealth over integrity.

When is the last time you were overcharged for some goods or service. Compare that to when you were undercharged. If it was an honest mistake then the overcharges and undercharges would be equal.

Would you tell the person who undercharged you that they had made a mistake, or would you think of the last overcharge and justify cheating the person who actually made a mistake in your favor?

Do I feel like we should help the less fortunate. Of course we should try to help them become more fortunate, but not by making them more dependent.

Do I believe government has lost its character, morals, and integrity. Yes I think they learned how to spread the wealth by buying votes with other peoples money, and not their own.

"Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war. Why should they go out and do the fighting. They leave that up to the poor."

They loved to give the fighting job to the 18 year olds of my youth, but no vote, or having a drink. It was OK to die for your country, but give you the rights of a citizen? Nah. I was one hernia away from becoming cannon fodder in the fall of 1969, fighting a war that we weren't willing to win.

We had to sacrifice opportunity for the sake of racial equality at 18. The was decided by the old men who had profited from the war, prejudice, and hatred of many prior generations. Sacrifice was perfectly fine, as long as it was someone else's sacrifice.

Should we raise the tax on gasoline to incentivize people to conserve? It does seem like price is the only factor that has that power.

Is spending what you do not have good judgement. We used to save our debt carrying ability for emergencies, like world wide conflicts. Now we have spent any reserve any sane person would think we might have had, as well as the potential affluence of generations to come.

Inflation is the worst tax on the poor. I have been poor and I speak from experience.

What I really despise is hypocrisy. Personal sacrifice and character seem to be sucked out of every person who enters the DC political arena.

When we debate which party is the lesser of two evils, and we understand that the real problem is the two party system itself and the fact that people today seem to think a lie that benefits you is a matter of convenience and not a matter of selling your soul to whatever particular master you wish to sell it to, then you will receive the rewards for which you have sown the seeds of your own destruction.

We should outlaw political parties and make our elected officials actually run on their own beliefs and credentials.

It really pisses me off the be responsible, save and sacrifice, do the right thing, and then watch those morons in DC spend all of my savings and sacrifices as stupidly as a junkie on the curb, looking for his next fix.

regards
Gary

OK, I'm one of the new ones here, and I guess that I kind of expect sincerely held differing opinions that result in name-calling, disparaging put-downs, or at least snide asides. It's the nature of the web. If someone needs to vent about what's wrong with the world, typing it here beats p#$$ing off the significant other. So, the way I look at it, the web is therapy for a lot of us.
Now, you wanna enter a conversation the REALLY gets blood boiling? Anybody for religion???:eek: :eek:
(That thar was an attempt at HUMOR. OK?) :D

lol 2 words about religion that i can say can nark off people for a loooog time...if you ask for my opinion/view of it all i will tell in great detail but i respect other peoples belifs ( sometimes i just like hearing about the different religions) hence i usually wont go willy nilly blurting it out.

RIDE: the CCR song Fortunite Son comes to mind vividly as you talk about nam...

Some folks are born to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Yeah!

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no.

Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer More! more! more! yoh,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, one.
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,

Pstrbrc;

Some people are nasty when they get drunk. Some people are just a happy drunk.

I understand your statement about venting on the web, to those you will probably never see in person.

It's much like the happy and nasty drunks.

I always liked my old saying. Since I am old I can claim an old saying.

Life is like walking through a plowed field. You can step from peak to peak or you can step from rut to rut.

The choice is yours in this life. Do you choose to step from one misery to another misery or do you choose the inspirational peaks as to where you place your energy next.

The choice is yours, but it's not your choice to drag me down into the rut with you.

Vette Owner:

I have seen CCR many times. Partied some with Cactus, met the members of ZZtop and sat in the car that is on the cover of their album.
Sat in an old ex barn nightclub in Houston 5 feet from Stevie Ray Vaughan as a guest of one of his personal friends, who worked as a service writer for Intercontinental Motors, the Benz dealer just north of Houston.

One of my favorites is Kristofferson's work.

Back on topic:

Intolerance for another human beings personal beliefs and religious viewpoints is a reflection on yourself, like the Happy-mean drunk analogy. I know more about a person if we get drunk together than I would ever learn otherwise.

Sadly I never drink much anymore ;).

Don't argue with women. My father thinks God is a female. Every woman alive today is part of a never (so far) ending chain of living beings from the beginning of time.

Men are just a bag of seeds.

While it may be necessary for the moderators to change policy for any reason they deem fit, I think it's more the nature of people, that is the problem, and the only way that will change is for people to chase their dreams, live their lives with a positive outlook, and try very very hard to love their neighbors, even when their neighbors seem to be the worst nightmare on the planet.

Mine aren't because I ain't sticking my foot there!

regards
Gary

Gary,

fantastic and wise words. in regard to peaks and ruts: we all make mistakes(in the ruts), and i believe it to be one of life's greatest experiences to be there WITH someone who is there for support. and having someone for yourself is always good of course.

i would be honored to JUST sit and listen to you and your father converse w/ my dad. he was born in 1932, and passed about this time last year. oh, what you all could talk about...

VetteOwner,

great song, great group! one sad note about vietnam that i learned, like you, AFTER high school: more than 1 million south vietnamese were killed after we pulled out. that's not an endorsement, just an observation.

see i didnt learn that till just now...couldnt have learned it in highschool because it puts us in a bad view:rolleyes: