Toyota
 

Gas Pedal

I drive a couple hundred miles every weekday and I'm not concerned about the current problem Toyota has with gas pedals, or anything else with my Tundra because I have a damn good mechanic who has kept all my vehicles running for over a million miles, including 623,000 on the last truck a Dodge Dakota. I figure he'll keep me going. Besides, he just finished Prius school at Toyota, which has nothing at all to do with the gas pedal...no, they are on the list.

Anyway, if you are near enough, visit his shop in Concord, California.
If you can't, you might do some serious investigation into really good independent mechanics. Maybe he was cloned.

Dex's Automotive
1102 2nd Avenue South, Unit B-12
Pacheco, CA 94553
925-685-1527

Drop by for the 25th Anniversary open house January 30. 4 pm to 8 pm.

i understand the toyota acceleration issue is coming up again. the latest...

1 toyota is maintaining that it is NOT an electrical issue--they claim it is still the pedal, throttle linkage, floor mat, or some combination thereof.

2 congress will again be meeting about it soon

3 NASA engineers are scheduled to do their own testing of the issue

4 toyota has moved to discredit the critics and their speculation

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit ridiculous?

I just envision some stuffed shirt sitting in his office yelling "well then get NASA to figure it out", and some underling not realizing that it was a joke (or other type of sarcastic attempt at humor).

yup, but how 'bout the engineers POV? well, fred, we got this "unrelated" (to rocket science) issue that congress would like you to look into. but, hey we're(NASA) cuttin' back anyway so...

They've got a mystery that engineers can't agree on. They've got NASA, an institution that needs more support from an apathetic public. Seems like a good combination to me...NASA saves the day and attitudes about NASA slightly improve.

Five months and the panic is gone........

Where did it go, I wonder?

I've thought all along it was an electrical glitch and still do. My '88 Ford Escort done the same thing when the ECU went bad. I'd be driving down the road at 55-60MPH and it would start to accelerate and would continue until I shut it off and restarted it.

Toyota keeps saying the ECU doesn't show any malfunctions. When my Escort done this I hooked up a code reader (OBD I) to it and there was no communication between the ECU and the code reader, therefore no codes for malfuctioning equipment. I just helped someone on a Ford forum a couple weeks ago with the same issues, it was a bad ECU and once again no communication with a code reader.

Hmmm....I wonder...about a month ago, I was driving through my neighborhood in my Geo. I had just listened to a radio news story about Toyota and their trials and tribulations. All of a sudden, my car started accelerating full throttle, even with my foot off the gas. Of course, full throttle acceleration in my Geo is a slow, gentle process, so I was able to shut off the car before I even broke the speed limit. Nice invention, the ignition key.

Now a 1991 Geo is not drive-by-wire, I've never noticed any binding in the throttle linkage anywhere, nothing was catching on the gas pedal. Don't know what could have happened...maybe a little glitch 'twixt the TPS and the ECU? Anyway, it hasn't happened again.

Or maybe it's the aliens...or the gov'mint...

Well if we're gonna have NASA getting involved in every which type of engineering problem, how about going after that oil leak in the Gulf. Now THAT is a problem.

The TPS can't move the throttle, it can only report the throttle's position. At most it can convince the computer to run rich but that's not going to give you any real acceleration with a closed throttle.

Are you sure it was WOT? Could it have been a malfunction in the IACV? Unless your car has cruise control, or if a 1991 Geo is equipped with a throttle actuator for some other reason, it would need air from the throttle or the IACV to accelerate. At least, I'm pretty sure I've got all that right.

Good idea. You ought to suggest it to whoever approved the Toyota/NASA idea. It won't matter to as many people but it's more important.

lol yea the chevette cable sticks every now and then and have had to shut it off and coast over, pop the hood pull the butterfly shut and away i go. never panicked just kinda annoying when it happens haha

The toyota NASA problem with the gas pedal was because an aero space company in the USA makes the gas pedal for Prius and Tundra and a few BMW models too.

The inside guy I know at Toyota says after checking the problemed cars they only saw gas pedals that had excessive dirt and gravel jamming the gas pedal assembly making them stick . . . no real carpet problems with the factory carpet or factory mats either.

Geo taking off could be a vacuum leak and since they use a MAP sensor to regulate the fuel being injected any air leak causing a reduction in vacuum would result in more gas injected and the car accelerating.

Could either be IACV (or actually the ISCV, I think) or a vacuum leak...I'll check into it someday...it's not a chronic problem, and I think it's easily controlled. Now...if this were a 1970 GTO with a 455...

That would be worse...I can accept that the floor mat issue would be an afterthought, not a major concern for the engineers who are designing the important stuff, but they should definitely be thoroughly concerned about very normal stuff like dirt getting into the gas pedal assembly. That would be a serious design flaw.

yea no crap put a cover over the assembly dur durr durr

or have a small cable and the box up out of dirt and debris way

No these cars were REALLY DIRTY like the pedal has to move and they had it caked with junk jamming it. I remember the old gas pedals I think on a VW Beetle was on a hinge on the floor and it would rust and get stiff and hold the the linkage down.

Yep, that's likely to happen. Cars are driven by many types of people who walk in many different conditions wearing many kinds of boots. Loggers, landfill workers, hikers, construction workers, mud wrestling girls, landscapers, etc...think boots with big tread blocks, chock full of mud and debris. You clean as much out as possible before getting in the car but there's always going to be more than an office worker in sneakers.

Gas pedals need to be designed so that they will not get stuck down unless a brick is on them, and brake pedals need to be designed so they will be able to be pushed down unless there is a brick under them.

exactly! its not that uncommon to see a prius along the interstate on a construction site

I dind't get the hubub about it. Of course it's not good, but I've driven a few cars with this happening, and also shut them off. I heard the 911 call, where a Police officer was driving a Lexus (I think) with the throttle stuck at 120mph, and didn't know to shut off the car. It seems like that should be in Cop driving 101. He came to the end of the road, and killed himself, and a couple passengers.
I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but it's Darwinism. When someone takes control of a 2,000 lb missile, they should know how to control it. This is probably why we don't have flying cars. Automobiles are fallible.
Just a couple of months ago, I was trying to pass emissions in my heavily modified car that wouldn't idle under 1,100rpm, so I put an extra spring on the throttle return. It worked great, but I found out the hard way that when expanded, the spring got caught. I was passing someone on the freeway, while heating up the Cat, and when I let off the throttle, it stayed at 80mph. I simultanioously put in the clutch, and turned off the car, and coasted to the side.
People here should have to do driver's license tests like they do in Europe. Here, they are a joke. Driver's Ed should be manditory, and hard to pass.

Suddenly that easy to reach ignition kill switch seems like a great idea for just this situation.

Can anyone think of any reason why keeping the engine in gear and turning off the ignition would be a problem. It would probably keep the engine turning over and charging the battery and providing vacuum for the brakes as well as power steering if belt driven from the engine and also provide engine braking.

IMHO- On modern cars, the battery would likely not be charged with the key in any position except run (maybe start) because the alternator field windings need to be energized (receive 12 volts) in order for it to produce any electricity.

If it was an aftermarket "one wire" alternator, then you re probably correct- it would likely still be charging the battery with the engine turning and the key off.

I gotta voice my concern about the over-electronicization of some modern cars. In the "good ol' days" I used to be able to shut off the key, and it shut off the motor. Now, the key is merely a digital input to a computer which makes a decision about whether to kill the engine. (That is, if there is even a key any more - some cars have the "proximity" keys which are even more disconnected).

Not to mention that on many cars the ignition key doesn't control the starter motor- again, the "start" position is only connected to a computer which makes a decision about running the starter motor.

I know that in industrial control systems, this type of control logic would be prohibited by OSHA/NFPA. Even if you have all high-tech fiber optic connections around a machine, the Emergency Stop buttons have to be hard wired (independently) directly back to the control system where it cuts off the devices - not controlled through PLC logic or anything. (The PLC will be aware of the E-stop after the fact, but does not control it.)

Give me a good old-fashioned hard wired ignition key, please!

[/crotchety old windbag]

-BC

I agree with the rest of your post, but there is a valid reason why he may not know how to shut that vehicle off in an emergency situation. Let me list the factors that led up to it:
1. It's a rental vehicle.
2. There's no key.
3. The "start" button doesn't operate the same way when your throttle is stuck open as it does when you're idling. So, you try to shut it off the way you always do and it doesn't respond.
4. In a panic, with everything happening really fast, who's going to unintuitively try holding the button for 3 or more seconds while dodging trees and motorcycles? Those 3 seconds would feel like an eternity. I'll tell you who: Computer nerds and nobody else.

It's no problem. Everyone should try it at least once to make sure they know to do it in their vehicle and know how driving in that condition feels.

I second that.

I don't mind using electronics to control a vehicle, I just want either some sort of redundant system, or a way to safely get off the road if something fails.

My big fear is not what happens to drive-by-wire cars when they are new, but when they are 20-year-old jalopies being driven by some 16 year old...

Sounds like a Fuel cutoff switch is going to work just fine in all these situations since the computer can keep on running doing it's thing and all systems can function normally except the fuel system will depresurize - also great for an anti theft kill switch. Of course it will probably throw a cell code or two.

I will say that it bugs me when I am in gear going down a hill with no gas pedal and turn on the AC and the car engine brakes LESS and feels like it is accelerating.

I at least don't have that problem. DFCO becomes more aggressive and dependable in the VW when the AC is on. Then again, I haven't tried turning AC on while I'm already DFCOing.