Windshield washer pumps
 

Windshield washer pumps probably don't last too long.

Quote:Windshield washer
 

Actually, a small inverter and a fish aquarium pump might last longer. The problem is that it may not put out enough volume.

water injection
 

A lot of water injection systems flow to much. All you need is 1 to 3ml per min with a 2.0 liter engine at low engine speeds. Thats a .001 orifise or less at 10 to 17 inch of manifold vacuum pull. Or no.28 needle at medical supply store.

Search on the internet someone already tried the injector trick and it will corrode and not open.

I've heard injectors are too big anyway, since I posted that more than half a year ago or whatev, :p, my learning curve is embarassing.

Opps didn't see how old post was.

High humidity improves mileage for two reasons. The water molecule (atomic weight 18) is much lighter than nitrogen (28), oxygen (32) or carbon dioxide (44) molecules, so if there is lots of moisture in the atmosphere, it reduces the density of the air your car is plowing through. Also water molecules in the air displace some of the oxygen molecules that your engine would normally be combusting. So high humidity has the effect of reducing the amount of oxygen that your ICE can suck in, which also reduces the amount of gasoline burned and the amount of power produced by the ICE.

They used water injection in some supercharged WWII aircraft, but there is was mainly used under steady state (fixed throttle) conditions with about 80% to 90% throttle. Aircraft engines are operated very differently from the average car ICE, since aircraft engines are run closer the full power most of the time and the RPM's remain more constant. Unlike car ICE's that are run at low power settings most of the time and the RPM's are often rapidly changing.

A method to set up a constant high humidity entering the intake manifold may help to improve mileage, but a water injection (spraying jets of water into the intake) wouldn't. The peizo room humidifier may work provided it can produce enough mist to keep up with the ICE's air intake demands and if the electricity required to operate the peizo doesn't eat up your energy savings via heavier demands on your alternator. The peizo will also need to adjust its output to your ICE's air demands, otherwise if you spend some time idling in traffic with the peizo running full tilt, you may end up killing the engine with excess water.

Every small block Chevy I've ever owned has ALWAYS run better in the wet damp weather!

I talked to my automotive engineer friend, and come to find out that the O2 sensor is going to see the additional oxygen from the water vapor and add more fuel to match it. The Mother Earth stuff was before the days of O2 sensors. With an EFIE and wideband O2 sensor it might be doable, he said.

So what your friend is saying is water is being split into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydorgen is being burnt and there is oxygen still left over or there is no spitting and just air in the water is released?

No, he was basically saying that the O2 sensor would think the engine was running lean and add more fuel. If max fuel economy is your goal, that would be a bad thing, so you'd need a device like the EFIE to fake the readings so more fuel doesn't get added.

I don't know if the o2 sensor picks up oxygen that's bonded into a water molecule, *shrug*

I'll do a test sunday to see if the injector duty cycle increases with water injection.

I'm sure my buddy will be interested in the results.

Actually, the way it went was HE suggested water injection to allow me to run leaner without causing problems, but someone else said it would cause the O2 sensor to think it was lean and add more fuel, and he said that could be possible, and we started discussing a setup like an EFIE with a wideband O2 to avoid the problem. He was saying it would be necessary and ok to add quite a bit of water to keep things cool. I don't pretend to understand it, myself. I sort of dropped it because I don't really want to pile lots of money into it that won't get a reasonable payback in fuel savings.

I was hoping to do something low tech like using a K & N air filter, and instead of oiling it, keeping it moist with water and letting my 190f+ intake air absorb it, but he seemed to think it would take a lot more water than that to cool things enough to allow me to safely run lean without burning valves, etc.

Not oiling it might cause some problems? The egr valve is a good place to injected it too as long as its working properly.:rolleyes:

I've done a fair share of research on water injection in the past and found that you should be able to increase your mileage a decent amount. The reason being is that the water vapor in the combustion chamber absorbs a good amount of heat when converting to steam, which will then increase cylinder pressure, this does add some delay to the combustion process and thus lengthens the time pressure is applied to the piston. The overall effect greater torque, allowing you to cruise at the same speed with less throttle angle / fuel. Basically it increases the thermal efficiency of the engine.

How about just spraying a lot of water in a "water box" in front of the intake and the excess water would just settle out and drain back into the supply bottle. At small throttle openings not much air is pulled through the box but at full throttle more air flows through it taking more of the spray. Used a presurized bottle and pump the excess water back into the bottle under pressure. All that is needed is a small pin hole spray.

How will it affect the O2 sensor reading, if at all?

Was there any increase in MPG by adding water via the EGR?

How do you calculate the optimal amount of water to add?

I was thinking of using a small atomizer and spraying it at the underside of the K & N and maybe even having a return feed at the bottom of the airbox. Wouldn't a wet K & N filter similarly to an oiled one?

I think the humidifier setup will end up using a lot of power. They basically boil a small amount of water, I think.

no the ultrasonically atomize it however you should keep in mind the mineral content of the water - bubbling it is better than spraying it into the engine.

mineral content of the water can be taken care of by useing distilled water, and you can collect distilled water (with a bit of soot) out of your exaust system, the humidity in the air is averages out to be nearly equal to the amount of fuel in the air, so for every gallon of fuel used, you are running around a gallon of water thru your engine as well, if you are adding more water to your intake air, that water is going out the exaust pipe, using a heat pipe in the exaust pipe should alow you to condence some water as the exaust exits, you will still have to fill up your distilled water tank, but I would guess this would dubble the miles per gallon of water used, then you simply filter out the solids and you are all set!

I would guess that the electronic vaporizer has an osolator to vibrate the quartz, altho that is a compleat guess, but really, something as simple as a old carburator with water fed in to it linked up to the throttle body, play around with the jet size a little to get the perfect mix at any engine speed.

what about the lawn mower testing? set up that same lawn mower with a humidifer next to it's air intake and see how long it will run.

Very interesting idea about lawnmower testing. I havent seen nortonpro around lately though.

LaPointe tested water injection to reduce power (test engine).

I tested 2% injection and found a power loss and no mpg gain.

All that might work would be steam...by running a line around the exhaust?

Yes the Ultrasonic vaporizers have a piezo electric transducer driven by high voltage high frequency signal to vibrate the water molecules into a mist and they do not take a lot of power since the transducer is very efficient - maybe 10's of watts not hundreds.

The steam idea is not going to work because you want water droplets in the intake that convert to steam and increase combustion pressure - they probably also cool the piston and walls and in so doing also increase pressure in the chamber on the power stroke. You could probably just run on water vapor for a little while and get a small quantity of energy out of the engine without any fuel injected. Ever hear of the 6 cycle engine? 4 stoke gas and 2 stokes water injection for cooling and heat to energy conversion.

Another thing to remember to prevent rusting in the engine only inject water when the engine is hot and not before shutting down.

The water injection thing tends to attract people...I know I got into it. All that free power from steam. But I'm doubting that liquid injection (drip or spray) works....except to cool turbos.

I think maybe liquid water removes too much heat from the combustion process?

Feel free to prove me wrong.

I'm wanting to test routing the PCV flow around the exhaust in a copper tube and injecting a very small flow of water to also provide steam (vacuum). Possibly also try injecting some gas (vacuum).

A PCV jar is a GOOD thing to use if you are testing water injection...keeps the water out of the oil to some extent.

lol! I'm such a slacker! I still have to do the winter/summer fuel testing too :rolleyes:
I have plenty equipment to measure ambient relative humidity compared to what the humidfier is shooting out into the mower intake. What I don't have is any humidifying device. Yard sales? And what sort of humidifier should I source?
~Will

You and your slacking, :p

Anyway, I'm in to here what you find out, though I have no idea about humidifiers. You could boil some wudder in front of the intake, :p

I know! :p
And I think boiling some water is a decent idea, I could devise a cardboard "tent" to entrap and direct the charged air into the intake.
Since my mower is a mulcher, it produces a helluva lot of wind, so I'd just have to securely situate the hotplate and pot of water above the windstorm coming out from under the sides. Then also keep it away from any vibrations...

I'm so clever.