Re: Hey there-
 

I think the mercury switch (having played with one in physics class), has a tendency to move around too easily and it might end up switching on and off your cylinders every second on a rough road, which might not be the best thing, -_^. In any case, yes, I believe on your engine it would be 1-3 and 2-4, since it depends on firing order you don't want it to get out of balance and all. Some wires and a switch would really be a piece of cake.

Cylinder Deactivation Accomplished, but...
 

OK so I took the plunge and setup a cylinder de-activation system. I wired cylinders 1 and 3 to be deactivated by using the common ground to each injector as a cut-off and routed a switch into the cabin. It works BUT...

*Under 4000 RPM I get a moderate vibration under engine load -- it's like an unbalanced wheel feeling. Did I pick the wrong 2 cylinders? Now that I'm probably using 60 horsepower to get the 'teg going, the automatic kicks down to 3rd gear on the highway, so I run in the 4000-5000 rpm range to maintain 70 mph on flat ground -- but there's no vibration at that RPM.

*The unbalanced feeling has me concerned a bit -- would it put too much pressure on engine mounts, rods, crankshaft journals, etc???

*So, if I run at 4500 rpm at full throttle for most of a 50-mile trip, it would defeat the purpose, right?

*I know this engine is bulletproof, but, in your opinion, is it putting unecessary strain?

Thanks all-

RH77

Interesting, I was hoping
 

Interesting, I was hoping you'd do it, pictures mehbe? I'll look some stuff up right now.

Re: Interesting, I was hoping
 

Hey thanks! I'll get the camera out and post some pics here shortly. Bear in mind that it won't win any "show and shine" awards, but it works. Thanks again...

RH77

"well here's the deal. you
 

"well here's the deal. you have 4 pistons (obviously) and so two of them go down, two of them come up. however it is the middle pistons that go down and the outer pistons that come up. by doing this, the motor is balanced at all times. the combustion is being put on the middle two pistons pushing them away from the head to the bottom (BDC bottom dead center) and pushing the outer two pistons to the head to the top of the combustion chamber (TDC top dead center)

if you were to disable any of the pistons, you would want to disable one of the inner two pistons and one of the outer pistons. pistons are numbered 1,2,3,4 you could either disable pistons 1 and 3 and have pistons 2 and 4 firing. Or have pistons 4 and 2 disabled and have pistons 1 and 3 firing."

And the firing order on the gsr is 1-3-2-4, so I think you're have to kill on and three or two and four, and you should be good, it might be the auto that is killing you, but you should not be using 60 hp to stay cruising, only takes about 12, mehbe less for your car being a bit aerodynamic.

More Testing
 

I did some more testing on the cylinder deactivation. At idle deactivating the cylinders results in the engine rocking on its mounts forward and backward, which is probably the same shimmy under load on the highway.

I think it would be too damaging to let the car shake that much, so here's what I've done, which may have defeated the purpose. From start, I shift down to 1st and accelerate to about 4000 RPM and deactivate the cylinders. I let it get up to 5K and flip the switch. Then I use WOT to get up to speed and leave it in 3rd on the highway, so I can keep it in that sweet spot above 3500. For some reason, the increase in RPM takes away the vibration.

Question 1: Running at higher RPMs probably uses more fuel, right? But with 2 cylinders, it would use half, theoretically?

Question 2: Honda engines love the higher rev bands, but I'm pretty sure that I'm wearing out parts sooner as they are spinning faster. I would need to change the oil on a stricter schedule too.

Question 3: Is it worth it. I haven't gone through a tank yet, so the results are pending.

Any thoughts folks. Buehler, Buehler, Buehler...

RH77

I dunno about your
 

I dunno about your questions, hard to think right now that I'm son cencentrated on bypassing my car's ability to tell what gear I'
m in...but I'm uploading the pcitures and data now.

tricky questions
 

My brain has bounced back and forth on this whole cylinder deactivation thing for a while now.

It seems that it would make sense, but it also seems that it wouldn't make sense.

for each cylinder fired your o2 sensor detects it's oxygen content to determine how much fuel is needed. Two of your cylinders have essentially a zero reading after not firing them. your ECU will then attempt to enrich your fuel to compensate.

And THEN your engine will have to work twice as hard to get the same RPMs, but it will only be using half of the fuel, so you're essentially where you left off.

I have lots of reservations about doing it myself. My car currently cannot be converted to such a system as it is Dual Point Fuel Injection.

I guess the benefits of doing thsi will be determined once you fill up again.

Then again, if my engine was rocking backand forth and it became more noticable than previously, I think I would immediately stop the experiment.

But that's just me.

And I need to reupload the
 

https://www.filefarmer.com/cruisur/switch.jpg
https://www.filefarmer.com/cruisur/wiring.jpg
And I need to reupload the data, didn't seem to work the first time through.

I can't upload the closeup now, I'll try to fix whatev problem with it later though.

Thanks for the Hosting
 

Thanks SVOboy for hosting the Pics. As for now, I'll set the DataLogger to record O2 Sensor data to see what's going on there too. I have a 55-mile highway drive to the airport to try things out today, so I'll have more data to share tonight. As for the rocking, I'm going to keep it to a minimum by keeping the revs up.

Thanks again...

RH77

How long until you get gas
 

How long until you get gas so we can see if there's any difference, should be pretty apparent I'd think.

SVOboy wrote:How long until
 

What a trip to the airport. 60-70% of the time on the highway was WOT to maintain 70 mph and averaged 4500 rpm and high engine load. It can't be good it. Anyways, the gas guage is fairly inaccurate, so I'll be back home Thursday night so then I'll fill up to get a result. I'm at 26 mpg right now before the mods. Another question...

If the firing order is 1-3-2-4, then you get Fire, Fire, Delay, Delay which would probably explain the shimmy. Someone over at the Yahoo MPG group suggested cutting 1-4, but that would mess up the TDC, BDC arrangement, right? It's worth a try at least.

RH77

I agree that about trying
 

I agree that about trying the 1-4, it may work, it's worth a shot just to go out there and try it and see about the vibrations. If your datalogging you prolly know all about chipping, so you could tune down the WOT a bit also, though I dunno about it, just wait and see I suspect, I have a sneaking suspicion it's our damn autos.

1-3-2-4 is the same as
 

1-3-2-4 is the same as 4-1-3-2 so it isnt off. i definitely wouldnt do 1-4 only. that would be unbalanced.

and i wouldnt even cut the cylinders until your up to around 45mph, and are going to stay on the highway.

also, check to see what your rpms are for these two cases:
60mph, 4 cylinders firing, cruising on the highway in 5th gear.
then
60mph, 2 cylinders, cruising in 5th gear. that 3rd gear is why your rpms are so high. thats what a transmission purpose is.

Decided to Give Up
 

I've done a lot of thinking and research, and it's a great idea, but but not applicable in this situation. With the 2 cylinders running so rich, I'm probably trashing the cat, and creating an uneven temperature within the engine block. Furthermore, I'd need to trick the ECU and make sure the torque converter is locked to allow power to be used at its utmost. I can run it below 3500 rpms, or the whole car shakes. I think the fact it's not only a 4-cyl., but an automatic makes it too difficult to finalize. Thanks to everyone who has helped with this experiment. It's been a pipe dream of mine for many months, but it didn't pan out. Oh well, it looks like there's lots of other things to do on this site to improve economy.

Thanks again...

RH77

You are wise
 

The more I've thought about this, the more it doesn't make sense on a 4 cylinder engine.

I can see it working without a hitch on a 6 or 8 cylinder, but not a four cylinder engine. From the sounds of it your ride was a bumpy one while you were experimenting. That would be enough to scare me away.

i might try it on my v6
 

i might try it on my v6 truck soon, but i may be too lazy.

rh77 send me your wiring and whatnot and ill try it.

and yes it would work best in a manual car.
which mine is. also if i try it, ill be using an AFC to lean it out.

Wiring and What Make Model of Truck?
 

Step One: Am I ready for this??? Just joking...I was really excited with this project, and now I'm disappointed that it won't work, but that doesn't mean it won't work in your application (although I hear Inline-6s, V-8s, and makes with manual transmisions are more friendly for this).

First thing is to determine the firing order and cylinder placement. For example on my car, for 4 cylinders, the 2 middle (2 and 3) are in the same position at top dead center, when the outer 2 (1 and 4) are at their bottom-most point. To balance out the load on the crankshaft and minimize uneven firing, determine the firing order. My problem is that the 2 similar cylinders fire next to each other, then there's a long delay while the dead cylinders are moving up into what would be the compression stroke, and it becomes seriously unbalanced.

I hope your engine config. allows easy access to the fuel injectors. Mine, as you can see in the photos in previous posts, are the black plugs. After you've researched which cylinders to deactivate, try to disconnect those injectors, start it up, and see what kind of idle you get (the electrical connection might be a squeeze-clip style). Mine ended up rocking forward and backward. I'm not sure what kind of idle is expected -- but my guess is that it shouldn't stall.

Wiring: After you find the injectors to deactivate, trim-away the tape/piping to expose the 2 wires to each injector. Find the same colored wire to each injector -- this should be the ground, and is the safest to work with (mine was black and yellow). Each positive lead should be a different color -- brown, white, etc. Cut the ground lead to each cylinder, leaving plenty of room to strip wires on the injector side. Tape off the "hot" leads (except one -- I'll explain this in a moment) to prevent shorts. Now on the wires coming out of the injector plugs, strip the wires and wire them together assuming 1, 2, and 3 are to be deactivated. Pardon the rudimentary diagram below: (I shorted out the PGM/FI circuit so, keep fuses handy).

|--|-|---> Run this to a switch in the cabin
1 2 3

4 5 6

You may have to drill through the firewall.

To complete the electrical connection for normal operation, take a negative lead from the "hot" source (usually the same colored wire). In my case, I just used the negative lead on the other side of the number 1 injector, because the harness stopped at the 4th cylinder, so I new it was the first lead "upstream".

..... --------------> back through the cabin to the switch.
..... x
1 2 3
4 5 6

It's usually close to a "Y" bundle -- basically complete the circuit. Flipping the switch essentially kills the power to the injectors and voila, cylinder deactivation. Flip the switch the other direction, and now each cylinder has a complete circuit and will run normally.

Now on how to use it, I have no clue. Perhaps get up to speed and flip the switch and cruise...but I never got it to work that way -- I had to floor it to keep at speed and stay down a gear (3rd instead of 4th), or a wicked shimmy would result.

Let me know what kind of truck you have and if you have any other questions. I honestly hope it's a manual. Feel free to take pictures if you need to. Good luck!

RH77

yes its manual, i said that
 

yes its manual, i said that in my previous post.

yeah ive been building honda B series motors for 5 years now, and have been working on hondas/acuras for just as long. i know exactly how to do all this and what it requires.

What Make/Model Truck
 

What kind of truck is it? Also, any advice on getting the Integra efficient? I used to have a '99 Civic Si with the B16A2 -- what a great setup. B-series engines are great -- it's too bad the K-series is taking over.

RH77

they wont take over for
 

they wont take over for another few years. B's have been around since 1991, theyve only been here since 2001

v6 tacoma. 5vzfe

Re: What Make/Model Truck
 

Don't forget the champion of all Honda motors... the d-series :)

I apologize -- the benchmark D-Series
 

The new Honda Jazz/Fit that's slated to come over from Europe and Japan has a new "L" Series engine, which they used the D-Series as the benchmark. Since the Civic is getting bigger and more sophisticated, they need a new "super-mini" that can be bought new and on-the-cheap. Frankly, IMHO, it looks like a dork-mobile at some angles, but I'll give it a chance. If the economy numbers are up to expectations, sign me up. I know for sure we'll be trading the TL for a '06 Civic early next year. You folks have to drive this car -- 30/40 city/highway auto and 30/39 for the manual (go-figure) with around 140hp. The prices haven't gone up much either. Long story short, the D-Series has to get props for its history and the evolution from it.

RH77

Re: I apologize -- the benchmark D-Series
 

I personally love my d series engine. In the next few months I'll be swapping in my JDM D15b (vtec-e) engine for even better economy. Diemaster made a great point last night to me in IM. He said it's kind of funny that I'm swapping engines, transmissions, and converting to obd1 all of a motor with the same horsepower as my current engine.

he's right, that is kind of funny.

About the Jazz, you are 100% correct about it being a dork-mobile. I'm personally not too impressed with Honda's new line of cars. Their hybrid civic gets about the same gas mileage as my 1989 Civic Sedan. They keep building these bigger and bigger cars, and they keep looking worse and worse.

If the mini-cooper can sell (and it does) and if people are still buying Geo Metros and VW Bugs, I think Honda didn't have to jump on the "big car" bandwagon just to attract american buyers.

Actually, the new civic
 

Actually, the new civic hybrid is rated at 50 and real world testing pegs it at 47, so it's not terrible.

No crx hf or z1 though.

In-Laws and the Grand Marquis
 

My in-laws' Grand Marquis was about to die at 160K miles, so we talked them into getting a new Honda. They drove and liked the '05 Civic Hybrid, but decided on the LX, which emits minimal emissions. We did the calculations and it would take like 8-years for the hybrid to pay for itself. Honda should be commended for their low-emissions agnenda over the years, but the hybrid needs to get up to Prius levels before it gets my vote. It's a mild hybrid instead of integrated-drive, which needs re-designed to maximize its potential. My $0.02.

RH77

The new hybrid is sposed to
 

The new hybrid is sposed to beat the prius, I think the real-world numbers for the prius are 43 mpg. Toyota has the best economy out there, but they still suck, worse than 20 years ago (read this in some article on the left).

Re: In-Laws and the Grand Marquis
 

Is the 8 years assuming they pay cash? If you finance the car, I'm sure it would be even longer.

I remember reading an article a few months ago that said it woudl take you around 300,000 miles to break even on the hybrid compared to the Civic LX.

I've never believed that Toyota has better mileage than Honda. I think where Toyota got it right was to be the first to make a four door hybrid. Honda's Insight was the first on the market, but is not totally practical for families (or just about anyone).

Honda has been on the front lines of the gas mileage game for decades now. if experience means anything, I'm staying with Honda.

https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8272373/site/newsweek/

Here's an interesting
 

Here's an interesting article that was on Hydrogen-Boost.com. It kind of talks about how hybrid technology would have a hard time paying fot itself.

Hydrogen Boost versus Hybrid Technology



After competing in the Tour de Sol’s Monte Carlo style Mileage competition against the “leading edge” of technologies, I figured it was time to do another analysis of mileage gains versus cost for the competition’s technology. Last year I analyzed the cost versus benefit of the Honda Civic vs the Honda Civic hybrid vehicles, since that was the only model on the roads last year that could be compared.

This year there are at least four models of hybrid vehicles that have comparable non-hybrid models. Using EPA’s mileage numbers and manufacturers’ suggested retail price as benchmarks, I did the following analysis for this year’s models. All basic models compared were the basic standard shift model with no additional options.



Honda Civic sedan 36 mpg city 40 mpg ave. 44 mpg highway $13,260

Honda Civic hybrid 48 mpg city 47.5 mpg ave. 47 mpg highway $19,900 7.5 mpg diff 18.8% diff $6640



Honda Accord sedan 26 mpg city 30 mpg ave. 34 mpg highway $16,265

Honda Accord hybrid 29 mpg city 33 mpg ave. 37 mpg highway $30,140 3.0 mpg diff 10% diff $13,875



Ford Escape SUV 24 mpg city 26.5 mpg ave. 29 mpg highway $19,425

Ford Escape hybrid 36 mpg city 33.5 mpg ave. 31 mpg highway $28,455 7.0 mpg diff 26.4% diff $9030



Chevy Silverado PU 16 mpg city 18.5 mph ave. 21 mpg highway $19,040

Chevy Silverado hybrid 18 mpg city 19.5 mpg ave. 21 mpg highway $30,345 1.0 mpg diff 5.4% diff $11,305



Average for all four vehicles 15.15% diff $10,212.50



Averaging all four vehicles we get a 15.15% increase in average mileage for an average price difference of $10,212.50. Now there is an idea of where the “leading edge” of technology is taking us.



If you are the typical environmentally friendly “Yuppy,” you are spending a whopping $10,000 to improve your gas mileage by 15%. Of course no average environmentally friendly “Yuppy” would consider “saving the environment” by keeping their old vehicle for a couple more years and installing the Hydrogen Boost system to achieve that 15% increase in mileage for a whole lot less money. Nor would that average environmentally friendly “Yuppy” ever consider changing his driving habits slightly to get a 20-40% increase in mileage without any extra hardware.

But lucky for us who have to breath the air spewed out by these “environmentally friendly” Yuppy’s vehicles, we can save most of the $10,000 cost of that so called “leading edge” technology, still drive our SUVs, and also save the cost of a lot of otherwise wasted fuel, by simply installing and implementing the Hydrogen Boost system. Or if we really care about our environment and our wallets, we could all drive a reasonable size vehicle like the Honda Civic, or Accord, or Ford Escape, or if we need a work truck a Chevy Silverado, and implement the Hydrogen Boost system, which will pay for itself long before our vehicle is paid off.

















Hydrogen-Boost web pages and all information contained therein are hereby copyrighted.

Reproduction, alteration, or any other use of the information (in part or in entirety) contained on these pages

is strictly forbidden without express written permission of the author.

Cylinder Deactivation -- Big Failure
 

Well folks, I filled up and got a lethargic 24.3 mpg with the cylinder deactivation "system" compared with the 26-28 mpg I usually get under the same conditions. Lesson learned: not for Inline-4s. Perhaps the Subaru's H-4's, any Inline-6's, V-6s, and V-8s would be better candidiates, or if fuel management was implemented.

Anyways, the system will be pulled this weekend. :-( At least I got to try it, and it ran! -Despite my mechanical aptitude. This weekend -- hotter thermostat and/or hot air intake.

To answer the previous question, to pay for the Hybrid was with financing, which didn't add up to a savings. CO emissions are less, though, so if you're in a smog-dense locale, the altruism factor might add-up to a couple hundred bucks.

I agree, the bottom line is to get off of the SUV bandwagon. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I see so many Yukons and Expeditions around here it's just rediculous.

Lastly, I'll have to look into this hydrogen-boost deal.

-RH77

$3000 Tax Credit
 

I have to add something I overlooked -- someone brought to my attention today that a $3000 tax credit comes with hybrids. That helps the first year and cuts the time it "pays for itself" -- so it would depend on a persons tax return results...

RH77

Re: $3000 Tax Credit
 

Whoa da bus. Is this a $3000 credit or a $3000 write off? If it's a credit and if you have a decent down payment it makes sense to get one.

I believe it's a credit.
 

I believe it's a credit.

i am a chinese,i know how to reply you with chinese.but my english is not well enough,so could i use chinese?"不会对你的发动机造成伤害，因为润滑油在起作用。但是相对而言，这样会浪费掉一部分能量 ，因为被停的那几个汽缸仍然??"

Translated to English via babelfish:

-Jay

hahaha zap!!!

I'm considering a all off system for my automatic subaru.
When slowing down flip the switch and cut off the signal line to all the injectors. At the same time it would need to turn on fake sensor signals so the computer thinks everything is normal.

Cutting back the number of cylinders seems like it would have adverse effects. My car runs like crap if it is missing on one or two cylinders. The car would likely run a little rich as the disable cylinders are pumping fresh air over your O2 sensor.

if it makes any difference i had a car with a bad cylinder and it ran just as bad with one injector unplugged (v4)

nice.