New small cars comming out. (56k warning)
 

Ok here is my thread on some interesting cars

https://www.hondapreview.com/fit/images/jazz2.jpg
https://www.hondapreview.com/fit/images/jazz4.jpg

2007 Fit
- 11/11/05


Buyers will not have to wait too much longer. The release of this small, entry level car is not too far down the road. There are 2 trim levels planned, a base and sport (S-Package). The sport model will carry the features of the base plus ground effects, sport grille, wheels, fog lights, upgraded stereo and more. Expect a 1.5L engine producing around 110hp with a choice of either a 5spd manual or a "unique" 5spd automatic transmission. Price estimates are approximately $13,000 for the base and $15,000 for the sport. The car is currently slated to arrive in spring as a 2007 model.

https://www.hondapreview.com/fit/

https://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/1229/....jpg&WIDTH=640

The 07' Toyota Yaris 1.5L engine with 106 HP. It looks kind of ugly. Like an aveo with a strange front end.

2007 Nissan Versa Versa is
 

https://www.nissanhelp.com/Models/200...a_hatch_08.jpg

2007 Nissan Versa

Versa is designed to provide Nissan’s trademark enjoyable, stress-free experience through use of an all-new 1.8-liter DOHC inline 4-cylinder engine that satisfies both performance and environmental requirements. Three transmissions will be available with the 2007 Versa, including Nissan’s advanced Xtronic CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission).

At 120-horsepower (estimated) and 125-plus lb-ft of torque (estimated), the engine is powerful and responsive, but it also delivers excellent fuel economy – estimated at a combined 38 miles per gallon with the CVT transmission (final engine performance and fuel economy rating will be finalized closer to vehicle on-sale date).

https://www.nissanhelp.com/Models/2007/Versa/Description.htm

Woo, honda fit, I wish honda
 

Woo, honda fit, I wish honda would just make a cheap car with no frills and the stick shift sticking out of the floor like nobody's business, those were the days.

EH, the Honda Fit looks okay
 

EH, the Honda Fit looks okay I guess. I don't know why they keep making cars that look like bubbles. I mean seriously, whatever happened to the four door sedan?

Do people really want cars like this? Am I just out of the loop on what is cool now adays?

I say re-engineer the Honda CRX HF. I'm certain that with today's technology they could get 60mpg out of it without even needing to go hybrid.

That's what I would love to see: 80's cars re-engineered.

Blah blah blah, FIT looks
 

Blah blah blah, FIT looks like ****, but it's small and prolly better gas mileage than honda has cared about for years, and if an L15 is the si engine, that means they're not going to go k20 blah blah let's waste gas. I dunno, CRX HF is the Insight now.

Re: Blah blah blah, FIT looks
 

you're right about the insight being the CRX HF. It's essentially the same body design with some modifications.

What I don't get though is why they are putting a 1.5L in the Fit. They recently said they can get a 1.8 to put out the fuel economy of the 1.5 and the power of a 2.0. Why not put a 1.3 in the Fit and it will have the power of a 1.5 and the fuel economy of a 1.0?

Oh wait, it's because Americans can't handle little engines.

Well, I think the whole 1.5
 

Well, I think the whole 1.5 with power of 1.8 and economy of 1.3 is bull****, it's just 3 stage vtec. You can only get 1.8 power if you're in the 6k-7k rpm range, and only 1.3 efficiency under 3k, they're not at the same time, just marketing lies. Not to diss 3 stage, if I could get a jdm d15b 3 stage then I'd get your fuel economy with the vtec-e, but I could get 130 hp if I ever wanted to do a WOT run.

Re: Well, I think the whole 1.5
 

You and I are talking about two different engines. I'm talking about Honda's new engine, the iVtec

https://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=376015

See awesome video here:

https://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2005-4050705a/index.html

I'm all for oldschool 80's
 

I'm all for oldschool 80's styling too Matt. Bring back sharp body lines!

I think the Fit is alright. Did anyone see the Fit in the Honda Tuning magazine that Mugen got a hold of? It was sick!

Why Toyota ever canned the
 

Why Toyota ever canned the ECHO i'll never figure, they canned it right before the gas prices went up. I called a dealer and they said that people had been calling for them like crazy, the new car supposedly will sell better, although I still think it's ugly.

How about the new Kia Rio? been redesigned, said to get 39mpg freeway with it's automatic tranny, more than the stick actually, wonder how that happened?

Re: Why Toyota ever canned the
 

A lot of development is going into the CVT (Constant Variable Transmission). In theory it is just as efficient, if not more efficient, than manual transmission.

let's face it, Americans want free up their hands to eat greasy fast food, watch DVDs, put on their make-up, or talk on their cell phone. I forsee manual transmission being a thing of the past.

I'd never buy the Honda Fit
 

I'd never buy the Honda Fit for that price. I'd rather get a 2 door civic. It has more power, more room and gets the same gas mileage. It's only a grand more from the base price.

Re: I'd never buy the Honda Fit
 

this is a sad trend... the imports have dropped the ball when it comes to offering truly efficient small cars in north america: their new sub-compact cars are hardly more efficient (and sometimes worse) than their compact cars.

- the yaris is less efficient than the echo hatchback it replaces, and the corolla gets better highway mileage.

- the aveo is shockingly thirsty for its weight and power. it has the same combined rating as a (manual shift) cobalt sedan, and it gets trounced by the pontiac (toyota) vibe (matrix).

vw would have the small AND efficient market to itself if it would just bring the polo over and offer both the gas and diesel motors (there's one currently being evaluated by the canadian ministry of transport, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's coming).

Re: Why Toyota ever canned the
 

ah, but they didn't, really. the scion xa is essentially an echo hatchback (same platform, dimensions & mechanicals, but different sheetmetal as the canadian market 4-door echo hatch). we don't get the scion brand in canada.

but i guess one thing i can be thankful for in the canadian market is slightly more choice of small cars. canadians in general tend to buy smaller cars than you guys - it's often quoted here that canadians have a slightly european take on cars: buy what we need, where americans buy what they want. evidence of that:

- canadians bought 10 times fewer large SUVs, even after adjusting for population size.

- our top selling car: civic sedan; american top selling car: camry.

- we've had the 2- and 4-door hatchback version of the echo available since 2003, and it has sold well (i've driven it and was considering looking for a used one before i got bit by the firefly bug)

- the smart fortwo diesel has been available here for several years and they're selling like mad

- the cdn department of transport has been evaluating several vw polos (i've seen them in ottawa), though they say it doesn't necessarily mean vw is bringing them here.

- diesels: 40 percent of VWs sold here are diesel equipped, a far higher proportion than in the states

unfortunately, by the time these cars are on the used market and in my price range, they're getting a bit rusty. you guys at least have the option of looking south for rust-free cars that are still worth fixing up and keeping on the road.

Small fuel efficient cars
 

No car makers think they can sell truly fuel efficient cars in the US. Volkswagen has sold their "3-liter car" for years in Europe, but they won't import it to the US. It's called the Lupo over there, and it's equipped with a 3 cylinder turbocharged diesel engine.

In case you're wondering, the car is advertised to go 100 miles on 3 liters of fuel. That's almost 80 mpg, better than any hybrid sold in the US! The Lupo is slow, but it's not nearly as costly as a hybrid. A new Civic hybridcosts $22K!

Not everone wants a car that's slow, but why not give us the choice of really good fuel economy at a reasonable price?

In VWs around the world
 

In VWs around the world driving test they actually got 114 something MPG on the damn Lupo over 24k miles or something, it's amazing. And the 4 door polo gets 90 or something silly. Unfortunately neither are Federalized for safety so they'd have to be totally redesigned for the US which = money and **** gas mileage.

To get crazy good fuel
 

To get crazy good fuel economy you need less power. No car is going to sell in US with less then 50 horsepower. At least not now (only if gas goes to $5 a gallon or more).

Americans like big, shiny,
 

Americans like big, shiny, fuel wasting things. When they want to go to a gas station they want to buy a lot of fuel. The SUV owners complain but when you ask them how many are married and have kids some shut right up. Half the people that drive an SUV never have more than 2 people in the car. The only time I saw an SUV used right was when one dude brought an SUV full of girls to my cousin's party. Every seat was taken. Americans are fat, to accomidate the extra weight they need bigger seats, bigger engines, better suspensions and etc.

Honda has a 450hp car that gets 60mpg so some Fit that gets 35mpg is out of the question. Honda has the european diesel accord that has 140hp and 250ft tq and gets 92mpg. The manufacturers are more than capable of making cars that have good power and great fuel economy. The hybrids we have now can be easily converted to get 200+mpg if Honda/Toyota really wanted. Every Manufacturer company is corrupt by the governments and the oil companies. Enough said.

If US starts importing cars that get 60+mpg(not just the hybrids, but all kinds of cars) do you know how bad the oil manufacturers will rape us??? Gasolene will be more hard to come by than cocaine.

BTW, the new redisigned camry will have that same exact grill as the toyota Yaris.

Re: Americans like big, shiny,
 

Link please? I read about a CRX that got over 400 HP once and it was so powerful it couldn't even move. It just spun the tires. I'm having a difficult time believing that Honda makes a 450HP commercially available car that gets 60mpg.

easily converted to get 200mpg? COnsidering that the enthusiasts can only get the hybrids to break 100mpg I am not sure how the automanufacturers are going to magically pull another 100mpg out of thier rear end. It would really be a cool trick though, and one I'd like to watch.

Another statement which I've heard a billion times (and used to believe myself) is that the car companies are in bed with the oil companies. I just don't buy it. The free market dictates that the auto manufacturers would actually benefit more by offering 200mpg hybrids, 90 mpg sedans, 450hp cars that get 60mpg, etc. Honda would gladly offer a 200mpg hybrid to eliminate the competition. And if gas then goes up to $5/gallon, more people will be buying their hybrids. It's a winning scenario for them. But you claim that the car companies actually make money by NOT selling cars, which I don't buy.

This goes back to the 200mpg carburator story that has been told time and time again. Big bad oil comes in and steals a 200mpg carburator from a guy to prevent him from offering it to the world.

Yeah, okay. Big oil is corrupt, sure. They want more money, okay. I don't for a second believe that they have somehow managed to convince auto makers to not produce more efficient cars. If you want someone to blame for the lack of efficient cars, blame the US Gov't, who won't allow these efficient cars into the country.

Big oil, etc.
 

Let's face it folks, governments DON'T want us in efficient cars and trucks.

Fact 1 In Massachusetts, I remember distinctly that gasoline taxes were raised after the Big Three automakers finally started selling cars that get decent mileage, back in the '80s. The newer, good mileage cars cut into gas tax revenues.

Fact 2 Some states where hybrids are popular are already considering taxing hybrids because while they use the roads, they don't pay nearly as much in gas taxes.

The gas tax is such a cash cow that the states and the Fed can't can't fund their budgets without it. Money talks. Tax money shouts.

Today, nearly every global carmaker sells highly pollution-controlled, inexpensive European and Asian models that get about 60 mpg. Manufacturers could add airbags, Federal spec bumpers and door beams and sell them in the US. With the average model redesign on a four year cycle, the investment would be minimal. But they won't make them in US-spec, despite demand from people like us.

Honda and Toyota could build 100 mpg versions of the Civic and Prius hybrids right now, simply by replacing their gas/electric motors with diesel/eletrics. Modern diesel/electrics could even be less polluting than today's gas-only cars. But they don't build them despite the demand.

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but you DO have to wonder sometimes.

VW is actually making a
 

VW is actually making a diesel hybrid, but it only gets like 10% better gas mileage. VW doesn't like hybrids, wants to invest it's money in diesel. Which I won't knock because that money has created a prototype car that gets 240 mpg and the lupo that is production and gets 115 mpg.

Okay, you make a point
 

Okay, you make a point Sludgy. The government might not want more efficient cars, but it is for the same reasons that they really don't want people to quit smoking. They are getting huge revenues off of tobacco taxes.

When I lived in California there was a huge problem with the budget. All of the money allotted for the roads were actually being used elsewhere. They wanted to raise taxes so that they could get more money for the roads. They had the same problem with education money. The lottery was designed to fund education. A sneaky politician made the wording so that the lotto underwrote the education fund. So the actual money that was supposed to go towards financing a horrible education system did not increase, the source just changed. Now the government had extra money to spend.

You could say that the real problem is that our government system is extremely inefficient. They spend too much. If you do this long enough the whole house collapses.

I will as you this, Sludgy. If the government does not want more efficient cars why do they continue to raise the US fleet fuel economy standards? Surely there has to be a reason.

I do believe that people will want to buy more fuel efficient cars when gas hits $5/gallon. When it was $3/gallon this year the SUV sales dropped 4% and the hybrid sales increased 4%. It's unfortunate that it takes a dissaster to wake people up, but it's the awful truth.

Fuel economy standards
 

Corporate fuel economy standards are something of an auto insider's joke. Yes, the CAFE standards were raised last year, but large vehicles like 3/4 ton and larger vans and pickups, big SUVs like Ford Excursions and Cadillac Escalades are exempt. Almost as many exempt vehicles are sold as CAFE vehicles.

Exempting large commercial vehicles from CAFE makes sense, but exempting big SUVs and pickups used as personal vehicles does not. Whether we like it or not, these personal, wasteful vehicles raise gas prices for all of us by increasing gasoline demand.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head about gas prices and fuel economy. Costly gas would keep wasteful vehicles off the roads. I've long advocated phased-in INCREASES in the gas tax (accompanied by correspondingly reduced auto sales and exise taxes, registration fees and the like). An increase of about 10 cents per gallon every year for the next 20 years is about right. High gas taxes keep Europeans and Asians driving fuel efficient cars.

With higher gas taxes, nobody owning a guzzler would get hurt since gas would be cheap long enough for their vehicles to wear out. It sure would make sales of new fuel efficient vehicles take off. Even the manufacturers couldn't ***** because they would have time to tool up. What do you think?

I'd love to get a new truck that got good mileage, but that's not going to happen soon. In the meantime, we need to keep tweaking our cars. I'll try tweaking the pickup truck.

Re: Americans like big, shiny,
 

I'll make a really good response when I get back from work.

200 mpg hybrid: could be
 

200 mpg hybrid: could be referring to the plug-in prius?

Re: VW is actually making a
 

That vw got 0.89 litres per 100 km (317 mpg imperial) on it's test drive.

https://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm

they said they wouldn't produce it because it would cost over $26,000 to produce. That is too high for the target market.

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/04/vw_abandons_its.html

Re: VW is actually making a
 

okay, I want one.

sir your question was
 

sir your question was answered.

Y'know if VW put out that 1L
 

Y'know if VW put out that 1L engine some "movie-stars" would get out to show that they care about the enviornment, and people would follow (only a couple though) but it would be a good image for VW to project. Wouldn't you agree?

And as John Travolta said to Danny Devito's "don't you want somethin with power"? Travolta replied "if you're important enough, people will wait"