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-   -   Matt's n600 rebuild project log (https://www.fuelly.com/forums/f10/matts-n600-rebuild-project-log-1619.html)

Matt Timion 01-12-2006 10:13 PM

the other rebuild threads I thought I would start my own. This is for my Honda n600:
 
With all of the other rebuild threads I thought I would start my own. This is for my Honda n600:

https://www.gassavers.org/files/gassa...0/P1010051.jpg

I recently sandblasted the rims and removed as much rust as I could fathom with a wirebrush. I then repainted them with silver wheel paint and also clearcoated them. I will soon be putting the hubcaps back on.

Last week I had a problem where my n600 wouldn't get above 15mph. I replaced the spark plugs, points and condenser, fuel filter, and spark plug wires (much harder than you realize on this car). I am going to replace the oil filter soon.

Although I don't have pictures, today I received a new airbox and fan assembly for my Honda n600. it is the proper one for my year, so I'll be able to utilize the carb heater as it was intended. I took the parts to the car wash today to remove 30 years of caked on oil. I'd say it was mainly a success.

This weekend I will sandblast the airbox and repaint it gloss black. I may also sandblast the heater blower motor and do the same.

Pictures to follow.

SVOboy 01-13-2006 05:32 AM

Quote:With all of the other
 
Quote:

With all of the other rebuild threads I thought I would start my own.
:p

I like it, y0! Figure out the brake booster issue yet?

Matt Timion 01-13-2006 07:47 AM

Re: Quote:With all of the other
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy
Quote:

With all of the other rebuild threads I thought I would start my own.
:p

I like it, y0! Figure out the brake booster issue yet?

There really is no issue. I was just asking about it. Another n600 enthusiast removed his brake booster all together because he could not find parts to rebuild it. He claims to have not noticed a loss in stopping power.

SVOBoy and I were talking about finding a replacement Brake Booster in the event mine goes out. I need to do a little research and find one that is compatible.

SVOboy 01-13-2006 08:10 AM

I thought the plan was all
 
I thought the plan was all stock, ;)

GasSavers_Diemaster 01-13-2006 07:42 PM

i still think u should drop
 
i still think u should drop a 3 cyl geo metro in there :P or even a D16Z6 W/ M@d VTECK y0 :P lol car was over 20 years old hen vtec came out 8o

good job so far :) more engine pics. i am curious as to what a 2 cyl looks like :P

Matt Timion 01-14-2006 08:28 PM

Update!
 
Today I went to the junkyard looking for a new bracket for my coil. While I didn't find anything that was exactly the same I did find something that worked. I used the coil bracket from a 81 Accord. It's actually completely different than mine but it works. It will work fine until I manage to get my hands on a real one.

Tonight I took two parts of my n600 out to be redone.

https://www.gassavers.org/files/gassa...box_before.jpg
https://www.gassavers.org/files/gassa...tor_before.jpg

Well, actually the airbox was new. My sedan came with the wrong airbox, and a mangled one at that. The airbox above is the correct one for my car, albeit rusted.

The blower motor's function is to blow excess engine heat into the cabin.

I bought a can of black engine enamel so both items could handle the high heat of the engine bay.

I pulled out the sand blasting equipment, goggles, dust mask, etc... and went to work.

I've tried sand blasting twice now and I've decided it is not for me. It's a huge pain in the *** and is no more effective than sanding or using chemical paint stripper. I won't be doing it again unless I actually need to. Oh, and it's messy b/c I don't have a sand blasting booth.

I took some pictures while the parts were being painted but since the parts are black they really didn't show much detail in the pictures.

After painting them and letting them dry I installed them.

First I will show how the engine bay looked when I bought the car.

https://www.gassavers.org/files/gassa...engine_bay.jpg

Now with the freshly painted parts and a relocated coil:

https://www.gassavers.org/files/gassa...gine_bay_2.jpg

Oh, another reason to not sandblast is the wind will blow sand into your wet paint. I'm now considering sanding the paint in order to repaint it. ugh.

I'm currently working with someone on getting a rebuilt engine, or at least one a little better than mine.

I inadvertently discovered tonight that the screws used for my hose clamps are the exact same size as the screws that hold the front turn signal lenses in place. i've been looking for this information for a while now. I went to Home Depot tonight and picked up some bolts that are the same size, although the worker told me that these bolts are not rated for car use. I may just go to Autozone tomorrow to get another set.

GasSavers_DaX 01-15-2006 05:05 AM

Awesome thread. Man, I
 
Awesome thread. Man, I really want one. *pouts*

Matt Timion 01-18-2006 09:07 AM

I just purchased a new upper
 
I just purchased a new upper crankshaft housing on ebay for $50.

It's actually a BRAND NEW item. Some guy must have had this in his garage and finally decided to sell it on ebay. My gain.

https://images6.theimagehosting.com/f0_1.th.JPG

This thing just fell into my lap. I just so happened to notice recently that the threads are stripped on this piece on my engine, which is probably the cause of the head gasket leak I'm experiencing. I'll replace this thing, the timing chain, and new gaskets and my engine should be good to go.

SVOboy 01-18-2006 09:18 AM

Nice find, this engine is
 
Nice find, this engine is going to be a frankenstein of new;/old/custom parts, I'm looking forward to it.

Sludgy 01-18-2006 09:49 AM

N 600
 
That old N600 was equipped with a carburetor. If you replace the carb with a throttle body fuel injection system and oxygen sensor from an recent, four-banger, I'll bet it would get upwards of 60 mpg AND have more power too.

SVOboy 01-18-2006 10:02 AM

I think he's gonna restore
 
I think he's gonna restore it all nice and stuff, not modify it, he might be buying another to convert to ev though (i think), so meh. Out of curiosity, how hard/costly would a fuel injection swap cost?

Matt Timion 01-18-2006 11:07 AM

Re: N 600
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sludgy
That old N600 was equipped with a carburetor. If you replace the carb with a throttle body fuel injection system and oxygen sensor from an recent, four-banger, I'll bet it would get upwards of 60 mpg AND have more power too.

I would actually be interested in doing this. The problem, of course, is that I would have to get a throttle body/intake manifold custom made, as well as drill a hole in the exhaust manifold to fit an oxygen sensor. Custom fuel maps would have to be made as well to be fitted on a custom ECU. Sensors would have to be retrofitted to work with the car, and I'd have to get a different upper crankcase for it to have a tachometer.

Unless of course they make kits for things like this. I think it would be a very cool conversion, however.

SVOboy 01-18-2006 11:20 AM

Haha, I thought you were
 
Haha, I thought you were taking it back to stock, oops, :p

Matt Timion 01-18-2006 11:27 AM

Re: Haha, I thought you were
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy
Haha, I thought you were taking it back to stock, oops, :p

Oh, I am... but I'm still a tweaker at heart.

The carb works and was recently rebuilt, so any modification such as this will have to wait for a while.

A fuel injected n600 would be rather cool though, although it would take lots of work and I don't know how easy it would be to modify an ECU to use only 2 cylinders.

Sludgy 01-18-2006 11:39 AM

Fuel injection
 
I searched for an aftermarket injection system. These folks claim they will custom-build a system for you.

https://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/index.htm

Matt Timion 01-21-2006 03:58 PM

More progress.
 
I removed the front seats and the carpet today. here is the interior:

https://images6.theimagehosting.com/a...nterior.th.jpg

And the old seats:

https://images6.theimagehosting.com/a...d_seats.th.jpg

As you can see, the seats are in pretty bad shape. I am going to order an upholstry set on monday and reupholster the seats myself.

In the mean time I need to get the interior cleaned out. I found 30 year old dirt, old french fries and crumbled up fruit loops in there. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to clean it as my vaccuum cleaner isn't too good at stuff like this.

I'm also working right now on making my own carpet. I have a huge roll that I'm going to cut new carpet out of. I will be using the old carpet as a template and adding snaps to my new carpet so that it will snap into the same location as the old carpet. I will be using the same padding as before b/c buying new padding is ridiculously expensive.

Pictures of carpet progress tomorrow.

Matt Timion 01-22-2006 03:22 PM

carpet
 
I give up on the carpet. I have spent $25 on the carpet and about $15 in snaps to make it work. I spent a few hours today cutting the carpet so it is perfect and much to my surpise, it wasn't perfect. It didn't fit right and I could get the snaps to work with the carpet.

So I'm just going to throw in the towel on this one and order an after market carpet set instead of making my own.

I need to just stick to the stuff I know how to do from now on.

SVOboy 01-22-2006 03:36 PM

Nothing wrong with learning.
 
Nothing wrong with learning. PS: Aftermarket carpets fitment is poor, and most people end up taking them to a shop anyway. You have to heat and mold, I believe.

MetroMPG 01-22-2006 04:19 PM

been there matt - it's tough
 
been there matt - it's tough to do.

my first car was a 1964 pontiac catalina, and i replaced the carpet with "flat" aftermarket carpet off a roll. it never fit right. but i left it in because it looked a little better than the disintegrated crud that was in there before. believe it or not, i didn't know at the time that moulded aftermarket carpets were even an option :)


GasSavers_DaX 01-24-2006 04:59 AM

Good luck reupholstering the
 
Good luck reupholstering the seats. I did it to my 88 Civic a few months ago...took me all day, but they look great.

Matt Timion 01-24-2006 05:11 AM

Just order the upholstery
 
Just order the upholstery yesterday for the seats. They look like this:

https://images6.theimagehosting.com/a.../seats1.th.jpg
https://images6.theimagehosting.com/a.../seats2.th.jpg


and they SHOULD look like this once installed:

https://images6.theimagehosting.com/a.../seats3.th.jpg

GasSavers_DaX 01-24-2006 05:13 AM

That looks awesome! Where
 
That looks awesome! Where did you order from - is it custom, do they only have kits for N600s, or do they have kits for many cars?

Matt Timion 01-24-2006 05:21 AM

Re: That looks awesome! Where
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaX
That looks awesome! Where did you order from - is it custom, do they only have kits for N600s, or do they have kits for many cars?

I ordered through a guy in San Diego. He is a fellow n600 enthusiast and gets these direct from an upholstery shop local to him.

It's a good deal for the price. Much cheaper than katskinz or other seat covers. I'm certain that if you wanted your seats to look like this that you could probably get an upholstery shop to make something up for you.

It will probably cost a bit however to have them installed. A fellow n600 owner has these exact covers installed for him and it cost $250 to have it installed. That's why I'm going to try to install them myself :)

Matt Timion 01-28-2006 02:52 PM

Argh. I tried to velcro the
 
Argh.

I tried to velcro the carpet in and I decided it wasn't going to happen. I ordered the expensive carpet set from a guy in North Carolina. With any luck the new seat upholstery will be here this week as well.

MetroMPG 01-28-2006 03:09 PM

matt - you've probably seen
 
matt - you've probably seen this before, but here's a guy in the netherlands with some great classic honda photos.

https://home.hetnet.nl/~h-a-68/index.html

Matt Timion 01-31-2006 09:41 PM

Today I took one of my front
 
Today I took one of my front bumpers in to Salt Lake Chrome. I have two front bumpers and two rear bumpers. One of my rear bumpers is fine, and both of my front bumpers need serious help. I took the better of the two in and am having them straighten it and rechrome it.

For the amount they are charging it had better look better than new.

Who knew that chroming something was so damn expensive?

I'll have pictures up in like 3 weeks when it's done.

GasSavers_DaX 02-01-2006 04:20 AM

Re: Today I took one of my front
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion
Today I took one of my front bumpers in to Salt Lake Chrome. I have two front bumpers and two rear bumpers. One of my rear bumpers is fine, and both of my front bumpers need serious help. I took the better of the two in and am having them straighten it and rechrome it.

For the amount they are charging it had better look better than new.

Who knew that chroming something was so damn expensive?

I'll have pictures up in like 3 weeks when it's done.

My first car was a 1973 Porsche 914, with chrome front and rear bumpers. One of the last things I did for the restoration was take the bumpers [rust in spots, ding'd to hell, barely reflected light] to Southern Bumper Exchange - a rechroming outfit. The tally was $530 for both bumpers, but when I got them home two weeks later and pulled the paper off of them, it was SO worth it. Straight as an arrow and mirrors is the best way I can describe it. They far exceeded my expectations...even the terrible dents were undetectable.

Be sure to post up pictures...I hope you're as pleased with yours as I was with mine.

Matt Timion 02-01-2006 07:49 AM

I had a bit of a revelation
 
I had a bit of a revelation the other day. I used to have the plan on rebuilding this engine. The fact is, however, the cheapest engine rebuild will be $2200. THe better engine rebuild (with a new crankshaft) will be $3500. That's just ridiculous.

What I'm going to do instead is order a new cam chain and head gasket and replace them myself. I will then wait for the engine to die. It could take years afterall. When this engine dies I will then decide if I want to convert it to electric, or maybe try to fit a 1.5L engine in there.

SVOboy 02-01-2006 01:21 PM

Get a 1.2 and pop it in
 
Get a 1.2 and pop it in there. Makes sense to me. You could prolly get a d15z1 in there though, but it'd be a waste of power.

Matt Timion 02-01-2006 01:24 PM

Re: Get a 1.2 and pop it in
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy
Get a 1.2 and pop it in there. Makes sense to me. You could prolly get a d15z1 in there though, but it'd be a waste of power.

Do you mean the engine from the civic 1200? It's possible... I have a friend with a CVCC in Texas and he promised me the engine if i want it. I kind of wonder though if I'd be better off going electric at that point.

I could always try to put an engine from a geo metro in there at this point. The smaller the better IMO.

RGR... 02-02-2006 12:07 PM

Re: N 600
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Timion
The problem, of course, is that I would have to get a throttle body/intake manifold custom made, as well as drill a hole in the exhaust manifold to fit an oxygen sensor. Custom fuel maps would have to be made as well to be fitted on a custom ECU. Sensors would have to be retrofitted to work with the car, and I'd have to get a different upper crankcase for it to have a tachometer.

Unless of course they make kits for things like this. I think it would be a very cool conversion, however.


Most of these things are going to be easier that you assume, I've done
some stuff that "they" said was impossible, and I'd be glad to help!

As for a TBI setup, you could get one from a 4 cylinder that is almost
twice as big in cubic inches, just use 2 opposed spots on the coil
pack possibly, custom TBI intakes would be probably no more than a
custom spacer but as for sizing I'd like to see cubic inch and RPM
stats on this engine, is it a 600 CC size? Most TBI setups are
speed-density or an even simpler version of that type, with some
porting and hot-rod style mods, a mild regrind cam (for mileage) and
proper injector sizing, I bet we could use a 1000 CC Geo Metro 3
cylinder TBI setup with a smaller injector size and/or adjustable
FPR. Higher CR and reduced pumping losses could really add up to a
hot ultra-miler! You could just use an inductive pickup for the tach...

The trick to injector sizing is to look at the bigger engine setups
that use mutiple injectors of smaller sizes, and try and find (for
your donor) a single barrel setup that will easily convert to this.

I'll give you my # if you wanna brainstorm some of this Matt.
In an email of course :D

Matt Timion 02-02-2006 12:14 PM

I'll think about it RGR.
 
I'll think about it RGR. Right now I'd like to focus on restoring this thing before I go all frankenstein on it.

I've been talking with some people about throwing another engine in there once this one is dead. I have a few ideas that might pan out. It could be a very fun project.

BTW, I have family in Terre Haute, IN. I'm there every year or two.

Matt Timion 02-07-2006 09:51 PM

Received the seat upholstery
 
Received the seat upholstery yesterday. I enthusiastically installed one seat, and now that I've settled down I need to take it off and do it again the right way. It doesn't look too bad, but it could look better.

I also had to try to track down "hog rings" today, which was next to impossible. After going to Harbor Freight, Home Depot, Sutherlands (like home depot) and Autozone, I decided to just get some on ebay. They should be here in a few days.

In the mean time I need to fix a few things on the seat, so I should be okay with time.

At the junkyard today I obtained some seatbelt material to construct a new webbing under the foam of the seat. It will prevent the person in the seat from falling through the seat, which would be bad.

I'll take some pictures tomorrow of the seat in it's most raw form.

GasSavers_DaX 02-08-2006 07:56 AM

What are hog rings? Are
 
What are hog rings? Are they the metal rings that hold the upholstry together under the seat? Couldn't you just scavenge some from a junk yard?

Matt Timion 02-08-2006 08:01 AM

Re: What are hog rings? Are
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaX
What are hog rings? Are they the metal rings that hold the upholstry together under the seat? Couldn't you just scavenge some from a junk yard?

This is exactly what they are. I would just reuse my old ones, but in order to remove them you essentially have to destroy the ring. Besides, I'd rather just do it right and be able to use my cool new hog ring pliers. :)

GasSavers_DaX 02-08-2006 10:14 AM

Cool, they have pliers for
 
Cool, they have pliers for that? =P I reupholstered the seats in my Civic and it was a ***** to reset the old hog rings. I had to use two sets of needle nose...took me all day, but the finished product is bling.

Matt Timion 02-08-2006 10:15 AM

Re: Cool, they have pliers for
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaX
Cool, they have pliers for that? =P I reupholstered the seats in my Civic and it was a ***** to reset the old hog rings. I had to use two sets of needle nose...took me all day, but the finished product is bling.

And now you know why I don't want to do it again. I used the two plier method on the first seat. The thought of re-doing this seat and the other seats frightens me. this is why I don't mind taking an extra day waiting for the materials to arrive :)

diamondlarry 02-08-2006 03:30 PM

If the hog-rings are what I
 
If the hog-rings are what I think they are, you'll need to go to a farm supply store. They put them in the pig's snout to keep them from digging things up when they root with thier noses. Might not be any too close in the big city though.:-(

Matt Timion 02-08-2006 04:43 PM

Re: If the hog-rings are what I
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diamondlarry
If the hog-rings are what I think they are, you'll need to go to a farm supply store. They put them in the pig's snout to keep them from digging things up when they root with thier noses. Might not be any too close in the big city though.:-(

Big city? Salt Lake City? You drive for 30 minutes in any direction and you're in the farm.

That being said, I think you're right about the alternative use. I did wondery why they kept saying "great for auto upholstery or farm use." Now I know the actual application... cool!

I should be getting my hog rings in the mail tomorrow or Thursday. Ebay is wonderful :)

GasSavers_DaX 02-09-2006 04:39 AM

Do post pictures...I want to
 
Do post pictures...I want to see these pliers and the finished job with the upholstery.


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