Not everyone wants a large diesel engine
 

Why is it you can't get a truck with a small diesel? Most people do not need to pull a house, but would like the MPG.

It is starting to change. The new Colorado will have a 2.5l I4, and the Ram can already be had with a 3L V6.

Smaller would be nicer. GM and VW, have sub 2L diesels for the Cruze and Golf elsewhere, but our auto press and public would likely complain about the acceleration.

I agree, I like small diesels. For what ever reason they are not as common in the USA as they are in Europe. Hopefully we will get more diesel option in the decade ahead as CAFE laws push OEMs to reach a 54.5 MPR for their fleets by 2025. This means we will see smaller, lighter weight vehicles with more efficient engines.

My friend has an Isuzu pickup 2.5 TDI and he gets close to 40 MPG in it, and can still pull over 7000 lbs. American trucks seem to have massive yet underpowered petrol engines, bit of a joke compared to the stuff on sale in Europe.

Some of the rules around crash testing in the US mandate fairly heavy impact structures. This coupled with the prevelance of steel 'ladder' type chassis and live rear axles just keeps on piling on the pounds. Putting in a smaller diesel engine may be less efficient than a larger one due to needing to spool it more to pull the extra weight.

The real benefit of a powerful diesel engine, is being able to hoon it around like a petrol (albeit a fairly front heavy one), but without the single-digit MPG!

But its still possible to have a large diesel engine, with plenty of power but without sacrificing economy. A lot of the large German engines spring to mind, my friend recently sold his 3.0litre BMW with 300 HP, and he consistantly got between 50 and 60 MPG in the 15,000 miles he had the car.

Ford have a 2.2Ltr Pickup ... https://www.ford.co.th/en/trucks/new-...ions/spec-data in their Ranger and Wildtrak. These trucks are not exactly light.

Anything much smaller and they will be sluggish and not much use for the purpose that they were initially designed.

I use my 3Ltr Isuzu for every day motoring ... I just like the view from the cab ... anyway here in Thailand potholes are prevalent. It's quite quick as well!!

well, GM's 350 diesel was the first introduction usa/canada had to the diesel on the level that it did ... and it made such a bad impression it nearly killed the diesel outright. not to mention stricter emissions standards in over here means that they're also more expensive than gassers to buy and maintain (diesel exhaust fluid, diesel isn't always cheaper than gas). I like how modern diesels are better with fuel mileage than an equivalent gasser but the cost involved in getting a diesel and owning it isn't worth it. it might be in europe, but I'm not living there

Its not that the emissions are stricter in the US, its that they're different. For some reason the US goverment seems to think it's still ok to produce cars that burn a gallon of fuel every 15 or 20 miles and churn out 300 or 400 grams of carbon dioxide every KM. But in Europe, it's not unusual to see diesels that get close to 100 MPG, with low C02 emissions to match. The N0X is slightly higher for diesels, but its still zero point somthing per KM, as opposed to the plus figures you see for C02 if that makes sense.

This may not be about trucks with a "small" diesel, but it is about engines smaller than the Duramax, Powerstroke and inline 6 Cummins.

Nisssan will be offering a newly developed Cummins V-8 5.0 liter engine in the Nissan Titan full size truck sometime in 2015. They also have a webpage on a Frontier Project Truck with a 2.8 L Cummins diesel.

Toyota also will be introducing a full size Tundra with the Cummins V-8 diesel, as a 2016 model.

On edit: A post above mentions the 2.5 L in the upcoming Chevy Colorado. Articles I see on the net say it will be the 2.8 L version, coming out in the fall of 2015. The engine is made in the GM Thailand plant.

So how come it seems there are a lot of diesel trucks in the US, but not many diesel cars?

Diesel trucks were always popular in the US. Emission and fuel economy regulations generally meant the auto makers only offered large block ones in the heavy duty class trucks.

For decades the only car choices for diesel were a VW or a Mercedes. That only changed recently, but now diesel has a higher price per gallon than gasoline, even premium, in most regions.

In the US, diesel trucks are ideal for those who RV, or tow other large, heavy items, as under load a diesel is FAR more fuel efficient than a gasser.

Ram's new 3.0 Diesel in the 1500 series is supposed to get 25mpg or better.

Traditionally, the value of the diesel was that it would last several hundred thousand miles with just routine maintenance. The 96 Ford diesel I own has 250K miles and is still running strong.

A modern 3.0 litre diesel should get better than that, the German diesels of that size get over double that, although they are in cars, not trucks. My friends 2006 Merc Sprinter already has 500,000 miles on it, he's clocked up millions of miles in various diesel commercial vans.

The diesels they put in the heavy duty trucks for the US market are mostly V8s with 5 liters being small. Thus why this thread exists.

I would love to get more diesels in cars. I've been looking at buying a diesel car to commute in, but since I have a truck and a motorcycle, I feel like having a car on top of that is overkill. When I had my 1990 Mustang GT, it just sat around because the mileage improvement wasn't that much over the truck, and the truck was much nicer!

Draigflag- The 3.0 diesel might get much better than 25mpg in a car, but the size and lack of aerodynamics in a pickup are probably what is hurting it. When I had my old Cummins, it was in a 1998 2WD extended cab shortbed truck. I referred to it as my "commuter," because when I put 3.55 gears in the rear end and put a cold air intake on it, I was getting 25mpg out of that. But there was virtually no emissions on that truck.

The DPFs we use in the US SUCK for fuel economy, and that is probably the big problem with getting more than 25mpg in the new 1500s.

Yea I noticed that, its weird how a 5.0 litre gas engine can only pull as much as a 2.5 diesel engine. I would like to see Audi have some input in US trucks, the V8 TDI's they make get over 40 MPG, and do 0-60 in under 5 seconds. Even with lack of aerodynamics and extra weight, performance and economy should still be good.

The US might now have more stringent requirements when it comes tow ratings for vehicles. I know the car companies don't mind upselling a person that needs to tow from a car to a truck, but the stock LR tires might mean a low official rating on the car anyway.

Purely on weight or torque?

Not sure, i'm not very technical minded. I was just reading through some stats for US trucks, and noticed the big 5.0 Litre engine one's can only tow about 7000 lbs, which is what a 2.5 diesel can tow usually.

What model years were they? The tow rating were higher, but those were set by the manufacturer using an unknown method. For 2013MY, most of them have agreed to use the SAE J2807 method for it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features...ined-tech-dept

I don't know how that compares to any standardize testing used for tow ratings in Europe. I do know that cars with tow ratings there, mysteriously lose them here.

I agree that more small diesels would be wonderful. The American manufacturers (and VW) just lost a sale – – I bought a Mercedes GLK 250 Bluetec just to get the 2.1 L diesel engine, along with AWD and enough ground clearance to be able to handle a dirt road or drive into a pasture when needed. (Mobile medical practice, we get called out to strange locations fairly often)

With as many miles as we drive I appreciate the 34-ish mile per gallon in this vehicle.

Our other vehicle is a VW Passat 2.0 L TDI. We often get 47 mile per gallon in that. We specifically told the product development manager for Volkswagen that we wanted VW/Audi to bring out an A3 or Tiguan-sized vehicle with a 2 L engine. We need mileage, torque, and all-wheel-drive. They blew it

On a side note we drove and loved the Ram 1500 Eco-diesel. However 28 miles per gallon does not quite do it for us. We have no requirement to tow 9000 pounds. The Jeep Grand Cherokee eco-diesel lost out due to poor visibility out of the drivers seat and higher noise level inside.

Whatever they're doing to diesels to make them pass emissions in the US seems to be working. I think once they find a way of reducing N0X quickly and cheaply, they will be able to start considering smaller, cheaper diesels for the US market. As trollbait has pointed out numerous times, fuel is so cheap in the US anyway, there is no market for a diesel, and the one's that are available only offer small benefits in terms of economy. I've always thought the US has used N0X emissions as an excuse for far too long, even a small diesel like mine with C02 emissions that match a Prius, has N0X emissions so low, the C02 output is 70000% higher.

The VW 1.6 TDI Bluemotion is possibly the best engine for economy, it's been tweaked and tuned by VW's eco technicians. Recently, a hypermiler managed an impressive 97 MPG on a 1000 mile trip in Europe.

I don't know.

I have a F-350 it pulls 33,000 lbs. 7000 lbs is a bit of a joke compared to the stuff we pull around here.

Thanks the LOL though.

:lol:

No worries. His is big enough for him, yours is big enough for you.

Not just a truck but mini-vans and SUVs, in other words vehicles that generally get poor gas mileage.

Diesel engines cost more to build. The compression ratio is much higher than gasoline engines, so physical loadings on crankshafts, rods, engine block and other components are substantially higher so they have to be built more robustly. This costs money.

Historically, Diesel fuel cost a lot less than gasoline because it wasn't in high demand, but is a byproduct of refining operations. This is no longer true. China has no refining capacity of their own, nor do they have an electrical infrastructure that supports their rapid industrial expansion. The plants have on-site large Caterpillar generator sets. These power plants burn Diesel fuel that is imported from countries with refining capacity such as the United States. So Diesel now costs more per gallon than gasoline.

Another detriment to Diesel ownership is getting it started in the morning in sub-freezing weather unless you leave it "plugged in". GM sold a lot of 8.1L gas engines in its HD pick ups to people in the North East that needed the towing power of a diesel, but didn't want to deal with the cold-starting hassles, or pay the ~$7,500 additional for the Duramax.

Emissions systems for diesel engines are more complex, and cost more. Up until the past few years, Diesels were exempt from periodic emissions testing required for vehicle registration. This is no longer true, Diesels are now tested. So this "advantage" no longer exists.

One of the biggest "mysteries" in the US domestic truck market is why hasn't GM ever put the Duramax in the Suburban / Yukon XL? Technically, the two platforms are identical, so the hardware is available. The reason I've been told numerous times is "no demand". They could easially build a Duramax Suburban, but not enough people will buy it, so they don't.

So it's the cost of several factors that narrow the advantages of Diesel over gasoline to the point that the extra costs of fuel and acquisition don't justify the higher MPG potential. Which makes demand for small diesel engines in the US market low, so manufacturers aren't inclined to develop and then produce them.

You can't buy what isn't built. And they won't build what won't be bought by enough of the market to make it profitable. Regardless of how much "sense" it makes.

I have a diesel Silverado 4x4 and a gas Silverado 4x4. The gasser is much cheaper to maintain and a better drive around vehicle. If you need a pickup to move couches, garbage and stuff a gasser is much cheaper to buy and maintain. I use the diesel to tow very heavy loads, like a travel trailer, a diesel outperforms a gas engine by a lot in MPG and low rpm torque when towing a heavy load. When towing long distances over steep grades, I just put the diesel in cruise control and it just maintains, the gasser will have to be almost floored to do the same.


Pick up trucks with small engines are not very useful, had a F100 with a 300 CI 6 in it, the truck was no good for hauling anything, it was too slow and underpowered for a full size truck. Generally trucks should have a decent sized engine to perform their primary job, otherwise get an economical hatchback to putt around in. Trucks are not passenger cars.


https://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/319192.png

Mercedes is offering their full size vans that can be upfitted for heavy duty use, and still their 2.1 ltr diesel 4cyl, so a small diesel in a large vehicle can work. In their current ML250 and it's replacement the GLE, they use the 2.1 ltr diesel too. Not exactly light vehicles.

mine is quite bulky too since I own a Ford.

I think it's going to be even tougher to sell a diesel in a half-ton truck if the gasoline models keep getting more efficient. You might be able to sell a diesel when the comparable gasoline model gets 15 MPG or less. But a lot of the newer V8 half-tons are getting closer to 20 MPG these days. And, if you have no need to tow, some of the newer V6's (like the Ram Pentastar & GM 4.3 Ecotec) will do even better than that. As long as regular unleaded stays 70 cents cheaper per gallon than diesel, and the manufacturers keep charging $5,000+ just for the privilege to drive a diesel, you're not going to have much interest, save for the hard-core diesel guys. Or, those who put on 70K+ miles per year.

I remember when diesel was the cheapest pump, and nobody wanted to drive those slow and smokey behemoths. I still think its a great engine technology, but the economics in this country still favor gasoline engines for the average consumer.

Considering what most people are towing, a V6 will do the job. Heck, my Sonic with an Aveo nameplate can handle 1100 hundred pounds, without trailer brakes, across the pond.

Ignore him, when I moved to europe I couldn't understand people told me to watch out for arrogant eurotrash...then I met some like him and understood it. Fortunately they are few and far between. I took my f-250 to germany and helped haul some stuff for my landlord. He freaked when I loaded two fiats crossways on top of the box and strapped them down. He couldn't believe what it would carry, pallets of roof tiles, no problem, keep loading, yes slide that in and put another pallet on...and another..they had their mouths gapping as the truck pulled away with lots of suspension left.

Sure hope the arrogant Eurotrash title wasn't meant for me there?...

Walks like a duck......Haven't been on here for a while, came on here and reading through the various threads very quickly realised every comment you made was derogatory towards anything north american. Most of your posts I find quite insulting or offensive.
Actually to anyone in N/A most of your posts would be quite offensive. Have you ever driven a full size pick up? Have you ever hauled 1 1/2 cords of cut&split hardwood in one load before? Piddling around europe in a tiny diesel car does not make you an expert on what N/A needs in diesel trucks. Towing to the racetrack this weekend I got 13mpg at 105kph in my diesel bus which is a motorhome in front and an enclosed car hauler in the rear, it's 53ft long. I was continually passed on the highway by guys in diesel dually's towing a 28-32ft car trailer with two race cars inside, on cruise control at 120-130kph. It was a 4hr haul for me and some tracks are 7hr's from me, if I could jump up another 100hp and get there in 3hr's instead, I'd do it! So don't look down your nose at us and they way we do things just because you do or would do them different.
Sorry for jumping on you but all of your comments towards N/A are way off base.

I'm sorry you feel that way, certain members do feel offended easier than others. It's not my objective, but as you can see from the majority of other posts by other users, most people are happy to discuss maturely my points, observations and opinions. That's what you expect joining an international forum where such things are meant to be discussed.

Your post is dead on Bryan, two friends just picked up ecoboost f-150's and love them. Good milage when driving around, but beyond excellent when towing. One guy I know at the racetrack traded his new half ton diesel for a 3/4 ton so he could get the cummins. He said milage was great in the 1/2 ton but it wouldn't haul squat, and when he did haul the milage and power was terrible. Personally, if my old 7.3 (175hp) pulls a 4 door one ton with 8ft box around just fine, there's no reason that little diesel dodge is running wouldn't be adequate for most people. It's the crappy dodge truck that's wrapped around it that sucks! LOL!

29 MPG 1/2 ton Dodge truck now! light duty diesel, I am impressed, the gas mileage is super high for a full size pickup. Ram EcoDiesel - Fuel Economy, Power & Efficiency - Ram Trucks and 9200 lbs towing, CRAZY! I admit I was wrong about small engines in trucks, this new Dodge seems amazing.

Interesting, those promasters sold there are Fiat/Citroen and Peugeot here, I had no idea they sold them over there.

They just started selling them last year or so.
Ford is also selling their Euro work van, the Transit, here too.