Need "Initial Fill" or Start Mileage
 

When adding a vehicle to Fuelly, I need an option to set the initial mileage for the first full tank. Currently, I enter the odometer reading, put "1" for the gallons, and "0" for the price per gallon. I would MUCH prefer some sort of option when adding a vehicle to input the current mileage with full tank or similar.

I'm not sure I understand your concern.

When you filled-up, what was your odometer reading at the time? Input that.
Along with the amount of fuel you entered.

If you don't know/have the information for that first fill, then start with your next.

I wasn't the one that filled it... Car came with a full tank of gas.

And, to be blunt, I don't -want- to wait until the next fill up. There's no reason that I can't start tracking immediately. Especially since the fuel I will add to the car on the next fill up is to replace what I have used, and counts towards the miles I have already driven. Waiting a tank skews the cost numbers.

I agree.
But if you don't know the mileage when you filled-up, how are you supposed to calculate (accurately) your MPG?

Would it be safe to say when you bought the car with X miles, the dealer had just filled it up? But, then, you'd also need to know how much fuel the dealer input...

I buy a car. It has 10,000 miles on it. I add the car to Fuelly, and set the initial mileage at 10k. The car has a full tank (stated in previous post).

I drive 200 miles and fill the tank. By inputting the gallons, cost, and 10,200 for the odometer, I am IMMEDIATELY able to see MPG calculations AND my running costs.

This is the functionality I want.

Thanks for your feedback, we'll consider this in a future release. If you want to track your new vehicle with Fuelly today you will need to wait until the next full tank.

I know it is NOT what you want but to do a fill up on the way home even if it is 1 Litre it will start "adding up" the fuel burned/milage tracking
I also wonder how full the DEALER is getting it VS you and your NORMAL filling procedure(1 -2 clicks)

Currently you can add a fillup with the Odometer, and .01 as the gallons and leave the price blank.

Although, I agree with richmond2000 above which I sort of hinted at.
Most fuel gauges aren't 100% accurate. So when you fill a vehicle with a 12 gallon tank with 11 gallons it'll likely show on the gauge it's full, even if it's still short a gallon.
My wife's Scion is the worst. It'll show Full to 3/4 full for the longest time. She has a 12 gallon tank. If I drive it to almost empty (which happens more often than I'd prefer thanks to the poor accuracy of the gauge). I can input 1 to 6 gallons and it'll show 1/4 full on the gauge. This makes no sense. Input any more, and you're "Full".
I'd imagine, with the cost of fuel, a dealer is only going to pump as much as necessary to make the consumer THINK they are getting a "free tank".

Reminds me of a Rental Car situation. They just want the gauge to be at a certain mark. Doesn't matter how much you pump. As long as that needle is semi-close to where it needs to be.

I have a funny fuel gauge in my new car too, if I brim it, it wont move for 300 miles, then it shoots down a quarter pretty quick, then it just moves normaly. And the manual says its a 10 gallon tank, but its obviously more than that, as I get 700 to 800 miles per tank.

In a vehicle with, let's just say, a 15 gallon tank, I will have at LEAST 14.5 gallons in it when I pick it up from the dealer. Over the course of 250-300 miles, that difference of a half gallon (less, actually) will be small.

Over the course of 50,000-100,000 miles driven or more, it will make ZERO difference.

An option to record an input as "Initially Full" is easy to code into the site and the app. And, it is easier to document than telling people how to fake out the system as described. And, incidentally, I've used this fake-out method because I have to.

With regard to dealers pumping "only what they need to", you're a bit off the mark. While I agree that a "full tank of fuel" is factored into the purchase, and often even itemized on the bill of sale, it would take FAR too much work and training to get the runners trained on how to fill a tank just far enough to move the needle to F. They pump until it shuts off and call it good.

Reviving this thread... Third time I've bought a new car (all three of them BRAND new this time) since this thread died out. I want this "Initial Fill-Up" option. :)

I understand the inaccuracies of the gas gauges and such all along the way, but factored out over tens of thousands of miles, they fade into the background. All I want is a very simple way to say "start counting from here as this is when my first full tank was established." Even if the option were simply PART of the process of adding a vehicle: Add vehicle... "Is this a newly purchased vehcile?" Yes... "Is the fuel tank currently full?" Yes.... "Would you like to input the current odometer reading?" Yes...

Pretty easy

We've discussed it in the past and do plan on implementing something for users that are going off the assumption the tank is full when they pick it up off the lot. It's just, we've been busy with mobile app integration as of late.

I'll check again to see if there's something we can push out sooner rather than later.

If you use miles since last fillup instead of odometer you will track that first tank full.

Wrong.

Unless I have a way to input that I start at whatever number with a full tank (which is essentially what I'm asking for), there's no way to calculate mileage based on one fill-up. It may be true that I drove X miles and added Y amount of fuel. But, not knowing that the tank was full at some base odometer number means there's no way to calculate the MPG.

This is a complete non-issue IMHO. Fuelly calculates mpg and costs based on fill-ups to full. If you want to track costs right from the start with your new car, fill it as soon as you buy it, zero the trip counter (or note odometer) and then fill up next time as normal... input the miles travelled to Fuelly and fuel used, bingo! You have the mpg stats from the get go.

With you on that, why are people making a huge drama over this. When I bought my new car, it had no fuel in it, so I simply drove it to the nearest petrol station and filled up. Then did nothing for the next 700 miles or so until I was empty again, added another full tank, took note of the trip miles and hey presto there's your first fuel up, miles driven and fuel used. Simple.

Well, if my new vehicle had "no fuel" in it, it wouldn't go anywhere. It's customary for a new car to have a full tank when you pick it up (new, or "new to me").

A car will have hundreds of fill ups in the time it is in someone's possession. Getting 100% accuracy on the data from the first fill up made by the dealer, that itself may not be truly filled, isn't going to have a meaningful impact on the car's lifetime fuel efficiency data. Considering most people need some time behind the wheel before getting their better fuel economy, some may not even want that data included.

Different countries, different fuel costs, different deals. You have to work hard to get a free tank of fuel here, it costs a fair bit to fill a tank over here, hence why not many people do! ;)

Yeah, kind of figured that it was a geographical thing. I remember when some dealers used to put a "line item" on the window sticker for the tank of gas. It drove customers away to other dealers that didn't advertise that you were paying for the tank and that practice stopped on its own.

If your first tank of fuel was free anyway, what is the point trying to add it on fuelly? It won't show cost or mpg so won't contribute at all. You don't add data to Fuelly whilst you're driving, you wait until you've driven somewhere and used some fuel, which can only happen after your first fuel up anyway.

I'm not trying to track the fuel as much as I'm trying to track the fact that that fuel got me "X" miles. It's part of the calculations, and being able to identify its presence makes the overall calculations more accurate and overall easier.

So let me get my head around this. Let's say you bought a new car with 12 miles on the clock (assuming it's near impossible to get 0) you add the car and put the odometer reading as 12. Then 400 miles later, you buy more fuel, brim the tank and add that fuel up to Fuelly, odometer reading 412. That's your first fuel up, all miles and fuel accounted for is it not?

Correct.

HOWEVER... There is currently no way to add the vehicle and set the initial odometer reading (presuming full tank). You have to fake the system out with a bogus fill-up.

This is something we plan to take a look at it but the current focus is on getting the mobile apps updates done. I handle all of the data coming in from the webs and the apps so I just don't have the bandwidth to dig into this one right now.

Which currently works, because the recorded baseline odometer reading was(hopefully) recorded with a fill up done by the driver/owner that wants to track this data, and this fill up is done to the manner they will always do. The dealer isn't going to fill the car to the brim, and if you do, then those first two fill ups will be due to the different fill procedure between them.

Which raises another issue, just because the dealer filled it, that doesn't mean the car is still truly full by the time you get into it and record the odometer to Fuelly. Car fuel gauges aren't scientific instruments of accuracy. Most cars can use a fair portion of a gallon up before the gauge starts dropping. Which may be noticable on a dial type one if you are familiar with how far past F it can go, but not at all with a digital one.

Personally, I don't see the purpose of recording the miles travelled for that first fill when you first got the car. Few people buy the exact same model as their previous car, and with those that do may be getting the redesign with the normal 5 year cycle for car models. The driving isn't going to be typical for the person because of that. They are going to be playing with their new car.

Much of what you're "disputing" here was discussed by me previously in this thread.

Your ownership of a vehicle doesn't match mine, and mine doesn't match the next person. We all have different specific needs. Whether you personally want to track those miles driven is ultimately up to you. I -do- want to track them, though. I'm driving them, and I want them tracked. Fuelly keeps track of more little subtle details than just MPG...

Would using the trip meter reading method not suit you better then? Less likely to make an error with the odometer reading, and if you miss one it's no big deal. That's what I use, and I don't miss the 1.3 miles I initially drove to the station to get fuel either ha!

12 to 412 = 400, 9 to 371 = 362, 75 to 583 = 508, what difference does it make what the starting odometer was if you know you went 400 or 362 or 508 miles on that tank? If you use miles since last fill you only need the trip odometer and total odometer miles will never matter.

Trip odometer is not reliable as it can have "drift" that adds up over time.

If you have no interest in the "Initial Fill" option, don't use it. That's the only argument you need to make against it.

Drift? What do you mean by that? The trip odometer uses the same measuring implements as the odometer, so it's just as accurate, and obviously it's reset every tank anyway.

The trip odometer has a certain amount of "inaccuracy" because it always resets to zero and loses track of distances beyond the last tenth measured but not enough to tick to the next tenth. Any inaccuracy in using the odometer reading on any one fill-up is negated over time because it never loses track of the "in between" distance measurements.

Yes.. it's a small amount. Yes.. I am nit-picking.

I always tracked my fuel and maintenance info in a notebook in the car. I could calculate details at any point in time, track wear on the tires, total up my expenses, etc. It was manual, but the it was solid. Fuelly has the potential to be every bit as great - it just needs a few more steps taken to get it there.

Something came up, and I had to leave the last bit off. Here it is:

Others due want to track those miles though, and after experimenting with setting up a car for odometer reading once, not having a start odometer reading is counter intuitive. So I agree, it should be there.

This is how I see it working if implemented for Fuelly. The system will have a field to enter the initial odometer reading when first setting up the car. It will then ask if you had filled the car at this reading. Enter yes, and the software will treat this as the 'bogus' fill it takes now. Say no, and the software won't start tracking fuel economy until after you put in the first fill into the car. The miles between the initial odometer and that first fill will be ignored for calculating fuel economy and fuel costs, but will be used for any total costs, if such become available through the site.

It will work out this way because a car with a full tank of gas from the seller won't be as full as when a Fuelly user is entering the odometer from the point when the car is actually filled. The car's tank will most likely only be down from the drive back from the gas station and some lot shuffling to finally get it to you. So any error from that and someone entering that initial odometer reading as full will soon be averaged out by the the user fills following. But if you don't use the trip odometer for fills because of 'drift', I have feeling such implementation won't satisfy you.

The issue with "drift" is this: Trip odometers are accurate to 1/10 mile (in the US anyhow), or 528 feet. If I reset my trip odometer and drive 263 feet, it will still show 000.0 for distance. If I do this 21 times, resetting the trip odometer in between each one, I will have driven 5,523 feet, or 1.046 miles and not have ANY measured reading from the trip odometer to reflect any portion of it. In essence, I will have the potential to artificially deflate my MPG by tracking the fuel that was used to travel that distance without tracking the distance actually being traveled.

Yes, this is somewhat nit-picky, but there's no reason to lose the detail simply because of known limitations in how the trip odometer functions. Additionally, this problem can be worse if I do not reset the odometer exactly at the point of fueling (I sometimes am holding the reset button while driving away because the station is very busy).

This is why I use the straight up odometer reading method to track everything - it never resets, it never loses track of any distance traveled because of a reset, and every fill-up I conduct merely increases the accuracy of the overall calculated MPG (263 feet is the MOST that would ever not be tracked on an individual fill-up, and this distance calculated over thousands of gallons becomes a rounding error quickly).

Your description of how the implementation could work is in line with what my thinking has been. If the vehicle is delivered / purchased with anything less than the fuel gauge reading full, drive immediately to the station and fill it so that you can start tracking as close to the delivered mileage as possible.

As far as the tank being less than full, that doesn't matter a whole lot, especially on a new car. I would always set the initial miles to 0 on a new car unless there were more than about 30 on it when I got (which happens if the dealer had to do a swap to get you the car).

1.046 miles potential error over 21 fuel purchases averaging, in a Prius, say 437 miles each or 9,177 miles total is an error of 0.000114. And that's if the error is always rounding down each of the 21 times rather than some down, some up, overall basically nothing. How does that compare with the odometer which reads in miles and may be up to .49 miles or 2,639 feet off times 21 fills? Seems like a beam and mote sort of situation.

The amount that the trip odometer might be "off" is additive over time. The odometer will NEVER be off more than .49 miles (if it does not read in tenths). Yes, the TRIP ODO will sometimes be reading more than what was traveled, sometimes less. And those amounts could offset one another.

I would imagine that the ODO is actually never allowed to tick to the next mile indicator unless that distance has actually been traveled. So, it's possible that the ODO might be off by as much as .99 miles, but that is still a max amount, never to be exceeded.

Of course, the TRIP ODO might have a similar limitation on ticking off distance traveled. In that case, it could be off by as much as .09 miles at any given point, and be reading lower than actual traveled distance. Again, though, this is a potentially additive shortcoming that WILL build up over time, artificially lowering calculated MPG.

It seems much ado about nothing no matter how you slice it.

Yea I think you're beginning to split hairs now. You could argue the pumps are not that accurate either, give or take a few Ml when brimming, so even if you could accurately measure all your distances,the fuel amount will never 100% accurate. Fuelly is all about averages, I wouldn't try to be too OCD about it, but that's just me. So long as I know roughly how much my car does to the gallon, and how much I spend on fuel, I'm happy.

Because of the way we measure fuel usage and mileage there is an inherent problem with the fuel that is left in the tank, which hasen't been used yet.

One simple solution would be for Fuelly to allow 0 (zero) for Odometer Reading and Fuel used.

You could then use that as your starting fill up.

So, tracking a car from cradle to grave would go something like this:

1. Record 0 miles 0 fuel
2. Fill up (you need to remember this number as it is used at the very end!)
3. Drive
4. Fill up - This second fill up is entered into Fuelly, giving you your first MPG reading
Don't forget that when you fill the car and record the mileage and fuel, you are actually recording the amount of fuel you have just put in, not the amount you used, it just so happens that if you brim your tank each time they are roughly the same and over time the difference will be tiny.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until the car is ready to be scrapped.
6. Don't fill up - drive to the scrap yard, hopefully on the last drop of fuel
7 Record your last mileage reading using the fuel amount from step 2.

Note: If you get the car with a full tank and sell it on with a full tank, you haven't used that fuel so it should not be counted in your records.

Note: If you scrap the car with fuel in the tank, again, you haven't used that fuel, so it should not be counted in your records.

Fuelly could support this model by:

allowing 0 (zero) in the mileage input
allowing 0 (zero) in the fuel input
extra field to record initial fill amount
extra checkbox to indicate this is the last fill (this would then use the value from the initial fill amount.

Oliver.

I bought my new car and although it came from the dealer with a "full" tank I filled it. I reset both trip odometers to zero. I plan to keep the car a minimum of 8 years 1 day and/or 100,001 miles. Based on my last 2 years driving experience I anticipate buying fuel approximately 175 times in 8 years and if I go to 100k approximately 250 times. Any errors over such a sampling are insignificant and mean nothing in the grand scheme of life. Now, if the cash in my pocket that pays for things is not in denomination order, smallest outside to largest inside, all turned face up and inserted into my pocket face up with the fold to the left then we have an issue that actually means something to be concerned with. :)