SuperMID M1, MPG Computer
 

I had mentioned earlier that I was looking for a mileage computer for my del Sol. What I didn't mention is that I had one for my Prius for an event that I partipated in last summer. It is called the SuperMid. This is a very long thread but you can see some pictures of the device when we reported mileage after each shift.

Why did I need a mileage computer for the Prius when it already has one???? Well, we were able to exceed the 99.9 MPG limit. The SuperMID shows km/l up to 99.9, which translates to 235 MPG.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/prius-ii-100-mpg-marathon-attempt-live-updates.3041.html?page=1&pp=10&highlight=marathon

I sent the SuperMID back home to my friend Yoshi in Japan, but I just got a message from him that the same device will work on my del Sol. I just need to calibrate it by changing the parameters for fuel injection duration and distance values. So it is back on it's way to Pittsburgh as soon as he makes some mods to it. I expect it by the end of the month. In the mean time I just need to locate the speed sensor and injector wires to tap into. And since I am in no danger of exceeding 99.9 MPG, I will calibrate to miles per gallon instead of km/l. The labels will still read km/l however.

Cool stuff. I will post install pics and data when I get the SuperMid

Awesome. I wrote the
 

Awesome. I wrote the company that makes the oztrip asking if I could buy either a kit or an assembled unit. Their response was that the oztrip computer is no longer in production and that they were working on a new model. This new model, however, will not be completed for a very long time, they say.

Hopefully the SuperMID M1 will be a good replacement, as I *neeed* a mpg readout.

Upon further reading it
 

Upon further reading it appears that the SuperMID m-1 is made for the prius. I'd be interested in knowing how it can be converted to an obd1 honda car such as yours, as all of the posts I've read indicate that the program is written based on Prius constants (fuel pressure, etc.)

Maybe I can still coax flatland2d into making a mpg display.

Re: Upon further reading it
 

Matt,
There are two calibration parameters, one for fuel and one for speed. Calibrating the speedo/odo is as simple as going for a drive on the highway and counting mile posts. Just scale the distance parameter to calibrate. For the fuel, Just run a tank through and compare what the computer says to how many gallons you pumped. Then scale the fuel parameter. This is the same way that the oztrip works too.

How much does one cost?
 

How much does one cost? Where can i order it?

Re: How much does one cost?
 

I'm not sure if he is selling them yet. I will check.

Re: Upon further reading it
 

I've often been curious how accurate this is. Does anyone know the precision of mile posts? Is it 1 foot, 10 feet, 100 feet?

Re: Quote:I've often been
 

I have found that mile posts are very accurate over long distances. I have tested this in many states on many interstate highways and have always gotten very close results with the same car. I have tested the Prius on 100 mile stretches of the PA turnpike, OH turnpike, New York, Indy Turnpike and some state routes in the Carolinas. Sure, if you do a test for 10 miles you could be off because there is an obsticle where the marker post should be so they move it a few feet. But over 100 miles or even 50 miles, over many different roads, my Prius odo would show within +/- 0.2% of the mile posts. I just do it as a habit on long drives. Something to keep me from falling asleep.

Now the speedo thing might not be quite as accurate. First, don't necessarily assume that the speedo accuracy is equal to the odo accuracy. For digital speed readouts like prius, both use the same speed signal and display digitally so they should be the same. But with analog speedo/odo like my del sol, because there are two analog devices that use a common speed signal, you have some error that could occur. The needle could hang a little or be heavier from one car to the next. I have found that with the Outback and the del Sol, the speedo is lower than the odo, by about 1 MPH. Probably err to the low side for legal reasons.

I use the stopwatch method that you suggested for speedo calibration but it is much more difficult because you have to keep it on 60 and cruise ain't perfect. If you have hills or traffic, you are likely not to maintain 60 for very long. I have a 28 mile of flat state route in SC that I test speedos on. Perfectly flat and no traffic so cruise can give good results. It will be hard to test the del Sol down there. No cruise and it's hard to get the family of 4, a dog and vacation gear all in the del Sol.

The other method of speedo calibration is to drive by one of those speed signs that they place out every once in awhile to warn people to slow down. Problem with those is that they seem to be off by quite a bit.


I'm rambling now.....

FYI, your del sol uses a
 

FYI, your del sol uses a digital VSS, so you can easily switch to a digital speedometer if you want to.

Just received an email from
 

Just received an email from Yoshi. He is saying that he might be able to assemble one for me after we find out how it works in your Del Sol.

Re: Just received an email from
 

Yes,
I heard the same from him today. He also said.....

I have a pdf file that explains the features and calibration parameters. I just don't know how to post it.

SuperMID Functions and calibration detail
 

https://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1883/m1menueng7of.jpg

SuperMID Functions and calibration detail. I had to convert to jpeg before the service would accept it. The pdf is much clearer.

Speed Sensor
 

The SuperMID set up for the Prius has a distance parameter value of 2572. If you divide by 3, you get 857. The Prius OEM tire has 855 revs per mile. So my guess is that the Prius speed sensor sends out 3 pulses per revolution. Can anyone tell me if the Honda speed sensors have the same 3 pulses per revolution? If so, since my tires are 840 revs per mile, I will set the parameter to 2520.

Re: Speed Sensor
 

In the OBD training manuals I sent you, I think this is outlined.

Re: Speed Sensor
 

Hello all from Japan.
Thank you for your interest in my SuperMID.
The revolution standard is some what different.
Let's imagine an old mechanical speedometer driven by wire cable.
The industrial standard is 637 revolution for 1km drive.
Hopefully, Honda uses the same standard.

Prius sends 4 pulses per the cabe revolution, which means about 39.25 cm/pulse. ( 100,000 cm / (637 * 4 ) )
The SuperMID M-1 wants 0.01km(10m) resolution, then I programmed it as follows...
A 16bit register accumulates "some value" until it overflowed(value becomes 65536 or over), then increment the 10m memory data. We need 25.48 pulses for 10m drive. ( 1000 cm / 39.25 cm )
The "some value" is 65536 / 25.48 = 2572.

So, please forget to compare the tire sizes between Prius and del sol.
Please compare between standard and your tire on del sol, or it is better to calibrate the display value using your favorite miles-post method. :)

Regards,
Yoshi

Re: Speed Sensor
 

Yoshi, Glad to see you here! I will probably leave the default value and change it after 50 miles on my trip odometer. I can get it close anyway. Then I will do the milepost calibration. I can hardly wait!

mile post calibration may be
 

mile post calibration may be the best bet for me. My tires are not the stock size, so my odometer/speedometer is not 100% accurate, although it is within error.

Maybe another possible solution is to drive a certain distance with a handheld GPS unit that is accurate within a few feet and then use the distance displayed there.

Whichever method you use
 

Whichever method you use [milepost or GPS], be sure to keep in mind that the more markers you pass, the more accurate your results due to the law of averaging.

Re: Whichever method you use
 

Very true. I might have access to GPS equipment soon that is made to have accuracy of .05 feet, which is less than an inch. If there is the right software to calculate distance and speed, then I'll be set for calibration.

SuperMID M1 Coming Soon
 

Good from Yoshi today. He said that he hoped to have the M1 finished over the weekend and send it to me on Monday. It should be here 6-10 after that. I can't wait!

Re: Fo sheezy?Are you allowed
 

Fo Shizzle!

I can't say right now. After my BETA test we will work out a price.

I actually had an elaborate
 

I actually had an elaborate daydream about this computer yesterday. I managed to find a black plastic case for it, and then mounted it on my dashboard with something that resembles a surround sound speaker mount. I ran the wires through the dashboard down to the ECU.

It was really cool.

Needless to say, I'm excited.

Re: I actually had an elaborate
 

A true gassaver, daydreaming of fuel saving enabler devices. Do you dream of such things at night also? Does your wife think you are nuts? My wife thinks I am nuts but she says that it's better than some other scenarios that she can think of.

Yoshi builds these in his spare time so it may take some time to make more for youse guys. But I seem to remember when I got the first one for the Prius that he had offered to supply the parts if and i could build it myself. But since my soldering skills are far from adequate, I decided to wait for him to build it for me.

Now maybe you are more comfortable with building electronics. If so, you might be able to get a kit faster and at a lower price than if it were built by Yoshi. More details here, need to translate.

https://priusdiy.fc2web.com/NENPIKEI.html

Re: Fo sheezy?Are you allowed
 

The price will be $160 shipped for a built and tested unit. I just need to verify that it works for my car.

Wooooooot! SuperMID is here!
 

Trying to install now!

Woooooooot!

Thought you couldn't pick it
 

.

Re: Thought you couldn't pick it
 

Post office delivered today. Since I signed the slip, they left it in my storm door.

It's installed and shows about 2ms PW at idle. Sounds close. Im going for a drive to verify speed sensor works.

SuperMID Up and Running
 

I just took a drive to see what the initial calibration was like. The trip odometer on the del camino says 6.0 miles. The SuperMid says 9.70 km or 6.01 miles. I expected it to be close because I am using the same size tires as a Prius.

After the 6 mile trip the display showed 0.376 liters used, or 25.79 km/l, or 60.6 MPG. Hmmm the calibration seems a little off there, but not too much. The Del Sol uses 240cc injectors. Yoshi says his Prius calibration number shows 222cc. So there is probably an under registration of 10% which would bring me back down to 54 MPG. Sounds about right because I started on a warm engine. I'm gonna drive to work and back to get a better calibration on the odometer and see what the trip FE is. I will adjust the calibration down to make the trip 51MPG which is what I average. Then I will fill up the tank for a full tank calibration.

So far so good with the BETA testing. I was even able to verify that the injectors shut off completely under colsed throttle. The PW shows 0.0. I have it hooked up so that I can shut off the engine and restart by either bump start or starter and the SuperMID keeps on recording distance.

Not I just have to figure out how to mount it. ;-)

Re: SuperMID Up and Running
 

I'm pretty excited about this. I would be more excited if the price wasn't $160.

Now to your mounting question. Does it come in a plastic case? If so, I would recommend trying to mount a speaker mount for a surround sound speaker (the little ones in the corner of the rooms) to the back of it. You can screw it into your dashboard. Height, angle, etc. are all adjustable at this point.

How does it work so that
 

How does it work so that when the trottle is closed your fuel supply is off????

Anybody know if my car got that?

Re: SuperMID Up and Running
 

I would suggest maybe doing a highway trial that can be completed in an hour or two and still be tenths or hundreds of a MPG accurate. Then you could have you gauge up and running (calibrated) a lot sooner. Top off, spend some time enjoying that sexy Del Sol of yours, top off again, and calculate. I've done a few tests this way and the results are surprisingly accurate. Accurate enough to measure the effects of a few degrees of ambient temperature difference in fuel economy.

this is great news, krousdb.
 

this is great news, krousdb. an mpg computer for the non obd2 set.

the price isn't too crazy. at $160 it's $30 more than a new scangauge, but less than many of the laptop-connectable OBD scanners.

Re: SuperMID Up and Running
 

Thank you for your report.
Glad to hear the basic functions are working well.

Yoshi

Re: How does it work so that
 

It measures the pulse width of injector for the fuel usage.
If the vehicle goes to the fuel cut mode, the pulse width becomes zero.
Basically, the SuperMID M-1 works on any car which has fuel injectors and speed(distance) pulse output.

Do you know the pins for these signals from your ECU?

Yoshi

Re: SuperMID Up and Running
 

No, it does not. :)
It looks like this...
upper: SuperMID M-1 (mileage meter)
lower: SuperMID T-1 (tacho meter)

Yoshi
https://park2.wakwak.com/~mapokln85/P...SuperM1_08.jpg

Re: SuperMID Up and Running
 

I found a convienient place to mount it. I didn't really need a case. you can't see it from the outside of the car because it is hidden by the safety and emmission stickers.

https://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1451/supermid4xx.jpg
Another interesting point is the % time the engine is running and FE while the engine is running(shown as 76% and 19.46 km/l). During the 6 mile test run, the injectors were only active for 76% of the trip time, either because the engine was off completely or the injectors were cutoff during closed throttle engine braking. Whil the engine is running, my FE is shown as 19.46 km/L or 46 MPG. Now some of the off time was due to stopping at a convinience store for a few minutes to pick up some stuff. Also I had the supermid runnning for several minutes during installation so the 27 minute and 21km/h ave speed are not truly indicative of the trip.

More to come. Thanks Yoshi!

Re: this is great news, krousdb.
 

I'm guessing that shipping is ~$30. So buying in bulk should be cheaper. A kit would be even less but Yoshi says they are hard to build.

i'll also point out that
 

i'll also point out that this is more accurate than the scangauge, which apparently doesn't recognize the injectors-off condition.

USA-centric
 

I know that this is rather USA-centric of me, but it DOES display US miles and gallons, right?

Re: USA-centric
 

Not with it's current programming. I thought that I would just adjust the fuel and distance parameters to force a MPG output but unfortunately there is not enough range in those numbers to do that. I am used to km/L from having it in my Prius. Just take the the km/L output and multiply by 2.35. My target is 22 km/L which is 51.7 MPG. If you just keep that target in mind, you at least know if you are above or below it.