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-   -   Hybrid V's diesel (http://www.fuelly.com/forums/f35/hybrid-vs-diesel-17011.html)

trollbait 11-12-2014 05:42 AM

The average mpg for the gen3 Prius here runs from 48 to near 50. Consumer Reports got only 44 average, and only 35 for their city portion, which should have been the best number. The only time I came close to fuel economy that low in a gen2 was while doing 90+mph on an interstate. CR must flog their test cars as badly as any writer at Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and the rest of the automobilephile mags. Most drivers on the road do not drive that way.

The real problem with CR, and other magazine, testing is that it is not comparable between models while being presented as it is. Achievable or not, the EPA and other standard tests are repeatable, which allows a comparison of car A's to car B's fuel economy. That can't be done with CR because the car's may have been tested at different times of the year, under different weather conditions, with different fuel blends.

Draigflag 11-12-2014 06:23 AM

Yes hybrids are difficult to test as there are so many varients involved. With a gas or diesel car, you know you're going to be burning gas or diesel for the whole trip so results may be predictable. Im just wondering how the new range of plug ins that have ratings of anywhere from 155 MPG to 470 MPG are going to come out in the real world.

I remember Top Gear doing a silly test in a BMW M5 Vs a Prius. The prius was driven as fast as possible around the track, and the BMW had to keep up. The 4.0 litre BMW got 22 MPG, the prius got 19 MPG. A pointless test, but interesting none the less!

Draigflag 12-31-2014 06:45 AM

Well finally Audi is releasing the World's first plug in diesel hybrid. With a total of almost 400 HP, and official fuel consumption of 166 MPG, I think this car makes more sense than a gas hybrid. The diesel engine will be great for highway cruising, whilst the electric motor should be very efficient in urban environments. More info here:

http://www.greencarguide.co.uk/2014/...conomy-figure/

trollbait 12-31-2014 07:56 AM

Volvo came out with a plug in diesel a few years ago, so Audi isn't the first.

A diesel should do better than a gas on the highway, but they produce torque on the low end. This means more overlap with the electric motor on when which one is the best to use. A gasoline engine's output synchs up better to the motor. But there is a turbo gas(VW) and super charged(Nissan) hybrid system out there.

The hold back on diesel hybrids is simply cost. The engine and its emission controls weigh and cost more than the gas equivalent. The hybrid components add weight and cost. Combined the cost becomes unattractive to buyers.

The increased cost for a plug in's battery bumps up the extra premium, but makes the diesel cost an overall smaller portion of it. So a diesel PHV may be successful. Volvo's has been, and more so than expected.

I don't think this Audi has been ruled out for the US yet, but our higher diesel prices work against it.

Draigflag 12-31-2014 10:29 AM

Yea sure, but as you've said before, these premium expensive hybrids are more to do with status, it probably costs 3 or 4 times more than a small gas non hybrid car, but if it makes wealthy people feel like they are saving the planet, then fair enough! ;)

The weight is an issue like you say, even with the extreme measures theyve atempted, the car still weighs 2 tons.

itripper 01-04-2015 11:39 PM

Yes, I agree with Dragflag, fuelly gives a very realistic expectation of the mpg range a particular vehicle may have. I do not think there is a better way of measuring end user mpg than social media data gathering from sources like fuelly.


http://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-us/319192.png

Draigflag 02-22-2015 10:44 AM

Been hearing some scary stories recently for the newer hybrids. The BMW i8, a design and engeneering masterpiece in my opinion, yet when Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson took it on a 400 mile trip recently, he averaged just 31 MPG. That might not sound bad for a "hybrid supercar" that does 0-60 in just over 4 seconds, but compare it to the test cycle, and it's out by about 100 MPG!

Another auto journalist tested the Mitsubishi Outlander hybrid recently too, rated at 148 MPG, and again, it got a dissapointing 47 MPG.

If there's ever a time to change the EU test cycle, its now, how they can quote these figures and use them as the main selling point, it's almost criminal!

trollbait 02-22-2015 11:55 AM

I wouldn't use Top Gear as a source for fuel economy. They drive cars hard.

The Euro numbers for plug in hybrids let the cars use a full charge, but don't don't include the electric consumed in the figures.

Here's the EPA numbers for the i8: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/bymo...4_BMW_i8.shtml

Jcp385 02-22-2015 07:55 PM

I'll chime in with a +1 for diesel-hybrids.

Still wouldn't make me buy a hybrid, but...

...I can understand why it's not done. The start-stop nature of the ICE would kill a turbo exceptionally quickly.

Draigflag 02-22-2015 11:10 PM

No I would never use Top Gear as a source for economy, but its just another test by a real human in real world conditions. I hope in a way he did drive hard, it is designed to be driven in such a way.

Jcp385, I still having found a hybrid that I would buy yet either, apart from an old Civic, an old insight or a new CRZ, everything seems to have an auto box! Puke! ;)


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