Dodge Promaster Gas vs Diesel
 

Anyone know which of the Dodge Promaster motors gets the best overall fuel economy - MPG? 280 HP 3.6L V6 or the 3.0L EcoDiesel?

Diesel will always give better economy, but as there's such a huge difference in fuel prices of gas/diesel in the US, only you can decide if the difference is worth it.

Suspect the Dodge diesel puts out more pollution than VW diesels.

It will give out more N0x than the petrol version, but less hydrocarbons and less C02. As there are no pollution based taxes in the US from what I gather, so it should make little difference to the decision.

Considering these light duty commercial trucks are held to more lax emission standards than passenger cars and trucks, the gas and diesel likely are just as bad. Though the diesel won't have any particulates.

You are concerned about the money, pollution may cost producers of pollution. You are NOT concerned about pollution, killing people with breathing problems & in the case of bad pollution, kills people who are healthy.
Yeah, lots of people are concerned about the money, pollution may cost producers of pollution.

Lots of ways at looking at things, diesels are better for the greater good, and will help reduce greenhouse gasses so we still have a planet to live on. On the flip side, if you live in a overpopulated city, on a hot dry day with no wind, apparently you'll get cancer and die. Things like smoking, drinking and firearms kill hundreds of thousands of people too, yet they are bought and consumed in vast quantities. Like I say, most "problems" are only problems if you make them out to be a problem.

Smoking and drinking kill people alright. Firearms don't kill people. People kill people with a wide variety of inanimate objects, firearms being one of them. It is people that kill people.

It's just that if you have to get up off the couch and run, you might rethink killing a person.

I see what you mean essentialy, a gun is a tool to make the jobs of robbers and mass murderers easier, but if guns dissappeared, you'd notice a huge drop in mass murders, robberies, general crime and accidental deaths. It's difficult for a two year old to accidentally kill it's sibling with a baseball bat, and it's hard to murder 30 people with a penknife before someone stops you.

Anyway, best stick on topic before we get a ticking off! ;)

In that case, and linking more to topic, we need to limit any vehicle to a maximum of 3 occupants, limit fuel tanks to a maximum of 3 or 5 gallons diesel/gasoline, limit horsepower to 20 and have speed governors of 35mph max so that we solve the problem of vehicular slaughter which at least in the States is far greater than firearms.

Bottom line, you don't solve problems by legislating against inanimate objects, you solve them by legislating allowable human behavior and making the consequences for violations so extremely severe and certain nobody will chance them.

I don't think anyone would like their ProMaster to only hold 3/5 gallons with a 35mph speed limit though.

Actually I've often wondered what effect a limited tank size would have on people's attitudes towards fuel usage. An old car of mine had a 4 gallon fuel tank, it was plenty big enough. It would be like rationing, rather than force people to drive more economical cars, it would encourage them to drive efficiently. My car only has an 11 UK gallon tank, but will do almost 800 miles between fuel ups. If something is cheap, people will always waste it, as soon as you start hitting people in the wallet, they start taking notice.

The VW scandal has opened up a can of worms that will affect Europe as well as the US. and perhaps the world. The political advantages given to diesel in terms of taxes and encouragement in Europe is now being questioned, and rightfully so. Europe made a mistake in pushing diesel so hard. Any time politicians pick a winner instead of letting the merits prevail is a mistake. A few extra miles per gallon and low-rpm torque is a high price to pay for lung disease and perpetual fog.

The diesel V's gas benefit is far from "a few extra mpg" in some cases there can be a 250-300% increase in fuel economy, over the years combined you're talking thousands of dollars. You have to remember fuel is very expensive here, just 2 years ago in some parts of Europe, fuel was peaking at $12 a gallon.

It's a shame the US missed out on diesel, a country so vast and sparsley populated, where people do higher than average miles, diesels are perfect, and yet the average MPG for passenger cars in the US is something ridiculous like 27, maybe even lower. People are always overlooking the fact that petrol vehicles actually produce more nitrous oxide once they've reached a certain age than diesels anyway. We have so much more to learn yet.

Draigflag, so you're saying my Mazda3 with its 2.0L gasoline engine and six-speed automatic tranny would be averaging 275% better if it had a diesel. That means instead of the 42.5 mpg US that my Fuelly account is averaging, it would average 159 mpg US or so with a diesel.


Man, those diesels are magic carpets. Too bad they've got London and Paris so smoggy.

No I didn't say that, you did. I said "in some cases", you'd probably only see a 40 - 50% increase. It's not modern diesels that cause smog, for the last few years most cars have had dpf's fitted so 99.9% of particulate matter is filterered out. As I keep reminding people time and time again, modern diesels create very problems, it's the older ones and commercial oriented vehicles that contribute the majority of the pollution.

Draigflag, trying to resurrect the collapsed rep of VW diesels, tried to foist off the economy of diesels.

VW are one of the biggest richest auto makers going, they'll shrug this minor misdemeanor off very quickly. As I've said before, people only care about carbon dioxide emissions and fuel economy here, and we are taxed accordingly. I don't get why you guys are so concerned with this? Will it affect you in any way?

The VW diesels emitting 40x more figure is a headline, clickbait one. The study that caught them reported that the SCR model they tested exceeded the limits by 5 to 20 times. The LNT model did so by 10 to 35 times. On average over the test routes, the emissions exceeded by 6 to 7 times.

Not defending VW, but hyperbole isn't needed to convict them.

Toyota Prius vehicles emit as little as 1/10th the emissions set by the EPA. In other words, one VW could pollute as much as 400 Prius vehicles, while cheating & then lies about their actions. "draigflag" drags its flag in the mud.

As little as and up to 40 times does equal 400 but neither are absolutes so one can't say a VW equals 400 Prius'.

You need to get over this buddy. If it's N0x that really upsets you, you need to direct your hatred towards the farmers using Nitrogen based fertilisers, or the 576 Coal fired power stations in the US where most of it comes from, not the 3% of diesel owners. Open your narrow mind ;)

I know your love of diesels has been drastically assaulted with the VW immoral desire to make money while purposefully & illegally polluting. That is no reason to lessen VW immorality, their diesel pollutions & your desire to deflect to well-known coal & fertiliser emissions. Of course, you don't even mention diesel particulate emissions, which are having sweeping decreases in health of people with already compromised lung function &/or proxity to heavy freeway traffic with diesel vehicles aplenty. In general diesel pollutions are disastrous:
From Wiki:
Diesel exhaust pollution.....account for around one quarter of the pollution in the air(by the 3% diesel ownership you mention)....and a high share of sickness caused by automotive pollution....... While total nitrogen oxides from petrol cars have decreased by around 96% ... while diesel cars still produce nitrogen oxides...similar level to ...decade and a half ago; hence, resulting in diesel cars emit around 20 times more nitrogen oxides than petrol.

I don't "love" diesels, I am a fan of cars, I just happen to choose a diesel, like most people do because I enjoy driving them and they are very affordable to buy own and run. My next car might be a petrol, a diesel a hybrid, it all depends on my budget and current fuel prices. I certainly wouldn't let problems in overcrowded cities in other countries hundreds of miles away influence my choice of car in my own country, the same as you wouldn't stop enjoying a steak because people worship cows in India.

In the US, the people are, I don't want to use the word gullible because it sounds rude, perhaps more easily influenced and persuaded is the correct term, especially by the media who seem to brainwash everyone. Sales of VW have actually risen in recent months in parts of Europe, and diesel car registrations are just as popular as ever taking the majority of the market. Don't forget the problems you mention are mostly from the older generations, the cleaner newer diesels have already slashed particulate matter by 99.9% and N0x by 96%, so probably best let this go now...

No, in the U.S. people are gullible, a little over half of them anyway. Recent elections bear that out and very possibly, unfortunately, the next one may as well. Very gullible.

Well now you've said that, I did hear Donald Trump talking the other day, and people were cheering. I thought surely the cheering and applauding had been edited in afterwards...

Draigflag, your posts come across as arrogant, political in tone and in general insulting to the US and its citizens.


I suppose you are right, we are gullible. After all, to save merry ole you-know-who and Europe in general, the US lost hundreds of thousands of young men in two world wars over there and "loaned" and spent billions of US tax dollars to get things stable again.


Yep, gullible we are.

Read the post buddy, I refrained from using the term gullible because of the "sensitivity" of some of the members on this forum. It was actually one of chaps of your side of the pond who used that term, but I guess it's easier to redirect the hatred to me. It's impossible to keep everyone happy of course, but if you find something offensive, don't read it, every man, woman and child on this planet is permitted to voice an opinion regardless of what people think of it.

And just so you know, accusing someone of being "arrogant, political in tone and in general insulting" and then using such terms yourself makes you a hypocrite, in my opinion anyway ;)

Alot of stuff here is banta, chit chat, don't read too much into it buddy :)

Yes, I said it and meant it. Our last two elections prove it. The amount of support Hillary gets continues to support it. We are a nation of gullible idiots. At least some of us are not gullible and support common sense and drive sensible cars and other vehicles and even use Fuelly.

Don't worry LBD, you can say what you want, they only get upset if someone from another country has an opinion lol ;)

"drag its flag" is the one who needs to open its mind, let its defense of VW go, & submit to the truth. His attack position shows his embarrassment that even his Renault officials were fast & loose with emissions. Some VW officials got fired.... but not jailed for killing people, terms they probably will never serve. Estimates have determined a minimum of 100 people have probably died(some thousands injured?), due to VW, Audi & Porsch(other diesels?) emission felony(?) illegalities. If all vehicle makers had illegally avoided proper emissions, one commentator stated, U.S. cities would have "Beijing" air.

Again, for "drag its flag" & all diesel promoters (& they are still promotin'), some emissions from one VW diesel produces that of 400 Toyota Prius cars.

Wow still going? You're too stupid to figure out that any of the above mentioned is none of my responsibility and therefore I don't care at all? You should really focus on your own countries problems first before attacking other people. If you keep making things personal, you're going to be banned...

Calling people "stupid" while criticizing them for personal attacks is an example of your approach to things, Draigflag. You need to read some of your posts and consider how you come across to others. If you don't see the problem, you should see a therapist.

A bit of banter is all good, funny too at times. But people go too far. I never throw the first punch, but I'll obviously defend myself if personal insults begin. These guys seem not to be able to discuss anything sensibly without attempting some sort of rude personal remark, it's just the kind of people they are so it can't be helped.

Just a reminder though peeps, don't forget the rules now ;)

Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Excessive sarcasm, belligerence, insults, profanity, anger, offensive comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and national origin, are not acceptable.

Do not take every opportunity to express your disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, or fan flames. Voice you opinion respectfully and then let it go.