clutch issues: Should I be able to do this?
 

While driving and with my foot off of the gas I am able to take the car out of gear without pushing in the clutch pedal. I am NOT able to put it in gear without pushing in the clutch pedal however.

I could swear that every car I've had in the past wouldn't let me do this, so it's kind of freaking me out. Should I be able to put the car into neutral while driving without pushing the clutch pedal? If not, what could be wrong?

Oh, and please don't say I'm going to need a new clutch. I'll cry crocodile tears if I do.

u need a new clutch

CRY ***** CRY :D :p

if your using engine braking then u should not be able to do this. however i could do it on my dads 89 witch had clutch problems:o soo.....

Sigh...:(

You should be able to up and down shift w/o using the clutch if you know how. Some transmissions are more tempermental than others, but I don't think that being able to take it out of gear w/o the clutch implies there's something wrong with your clutch. It seems to be a YMMV deal. If you want to check your clutch, see if it stalls the engine in 2nd. If it can stop the engine then it's fine, replace if it doesn't slow down the flywheel enough to stall the engine. More to the point, to couple the engine and tranny you need to have them spinning at the same speed, i.e. slow down the flywheel, but to uncouple them just requires them to be released since they are already spinning at the same speed.

Hi Matt

Relax . the clutch is OK

Clutch problems are usually indicated by slipping under acceleration or juddering when your letting the clutch out when taking off.

Normally when driving one pushes down the clutch pedal when changing up or down.
This disconnects the engine from the driveline system.
The clutch in a normal car is quite progressive , that is , you can vary the amount of coupling quite well , which makes starting off at the line very easy to do at low rev's without stalling the engine.
Race cars on the other hand generally have verry ON or OFF clutches.
They often do away with the conventional friction linings for more tougher stuff and it gives it a real SWITCH type action.
(in my countries language a cars clutch translates to ?switch?)

When you press in the clutch the load gets taken off the transmisions parts wihich then allows you to disengage one gear and another.
Gears in a car gearbox are always meched (except reverse) but are not locked up untill the syncronizer is moved into place via the selectors / linkage / gear stick mechanism.

So when you change gears you are in fact changing positions of the synchro's and it is these parts that like to be unloaded with the clutch action to allow easy movement.
Of course some synchro's will allow themsleves to be moved (disconected from the gear) without the clutch being pressed.

If you syncronize the cars road speed and engine speed the load on the sychro is almost nothing.
At that time you can take it out of gear with very little effort without pressing the clutch in.

It is also possible to engage a new gear with the same mothod.
Matching the cars speed with engine speed and then the syncro will slip in and lock.
But of course it takes a lot more practice , and true , some cars syncro design makes it a little trickier to do.

I dont actually recomend using this no clutch technique.
When taking it out of gear you are placing more strain on one face of the selector fork , , the syncrho doesn't get extra wear tho.
When trying to place a gear IN with this method you are getting more selector fork wear and possible syncro damage on their tiny teeth.

So its up to you to balance what is better , less clutch depresses which will make the clutch last longer versus the extra syncro and selector wear.

Hope this helps....

Hi theclencher

In the way old days trucks didnt have syncronizers in their gear boxes so they had to push in th eclutch , take it out of gear , realease the clutch , push in the clutch , syncronize road and engine speed and select the new gear and then release the clutch.

Real pain the buttox.- but it worked and was strong.

Now days on modern trucks they may have more conventional synchros fitted but on some it is still recomended to double clutch under some circumstances to save on transmision wear and allow easier shifting.

Pull lightly on the shifter as you take your foot off the gas and as the load on the gears is released it will pop out of gear. If you want to get into the next gear it is best to have the rpm and speed matched and do it at a low rpm - not recommended because you are dealing with a lot of enertia and can chip the edges off the gears. Clutch health is a function of material left indicated by how high it grabs and how much adjustment is left, not easy with hydralic pedal linkage however.

I never considered it a pain to double clutch, it was the way it was done. What do you consider "way old days"? I've been out of the business for a long time but I don't think truck manual transmissions have changed all that much. None of the transmissions I used had syncros.

I rode with an old-timer once who almost never used the clutch execpt to start out. He could shift lighting fast and smooth as silk by timing his shifts just right.

-- Scott

Hi scostanz

You must have been out longer than you remember , many trucks have synchro's now.

The Volvo FH16 has 14 combinations of synchro'd gears.
16-speed synchromesh gearboxes are available on MAN trucks.
And Scania was one of the first to offer synchro gearboxes in trucks back in the mid 60's with the LB76 model.

yup same here. you are fine.

Matt...I have been able to do this with EVERY Honda I have owned (I'm on my 7th...i think).

As long as you're NOT doing it with engine braking, you're fine. You CAN do it with engine braking, but it wears the back side of the teeth on the synchros. Doing it without heavy engine braking is ok. You can actually shift without the clutch if you match the rev's of the engine with the rev's of the transmission. I have driven an entire trip this way and it works. Ask me about breaking a clutch cable while coming home from work sometime (I still made it home). :)

Explain Juddering...

Normal, Matt.

When I kill my engine to coast, I go to neutral without using the clutch by moving the shifter when the engine approaches its lightest load. I've been grabbing neutral that way for years in all my cars.

Some had a smaller window of opportunity than others - sounds like yours is fairly generous.

Like Dax, I also once snapped a clutch cable in Toronto traffic, to the delight of the tow truck driver who happened to be stopped behind me at the light. A quick check under the hood (before the light even turned green) confirmed the cable problem. He suggested, "I can just push you through the intersection to that gas station and hook you up." To his dismay, I thanked him for his offer, got the car going with the starter motor when the light changed and continued on my way sans clutch. He followed me for a while. :)

Same thing happened to my mom and step dad in my old truck. Stuck at the beach with no clutch cable.

So they drove home in fifth gear. :)

Hiya tomauto - re juddering

Juddering is the vibration heard or felt when releasing the clutch pedal.
It will not be felt when the pedal is all the way up or down , only during the time that you are slipping the clutch - Mostly like when pulling away from a dead stop.
Most often it will be noticed then , but perhaps on the 1st to 2nd gear change as well depending upon its severity and your driving style. (clutch slipper)

Often juddering is caused by the friction material on the clutch plate being contaminated by oil (leaky rear crank seal) but it can be from uneven wear of this friction plate.(clutch plate)

Other , but less likely causes are uneven or otherwise flawed surfaced of the flywheel or clutch presure plate assembly.

If on dissasembly all looks good but the clutch (friction) plate is a bit bad then that part alone can be replaced quite cheaply - but if your intending to keep the car , get the flywheel machined perfectly flat again and fit a complete new clutch kit.
(a clutch kit comprises of one or two bearings , presure plate , clutch plate.)

If the friction plate was found to be contamined with oil , be sure to replace the leaky seal.

Never try to save money on a clutch job by taking short cuts , it will cost you more later.

Hi, JaneGeo!
I'm not trying to be a pain...but I greatly dislike "misinformation"!
For all the readers out there : The gears do not change in modern-day transmissions! The term "synchromesh" isn't used anymore...but the gear teeth are always in mesh! These meshed units slide back & forth on splined shafts...engaging / disengaging "dogs" on each cluster! Thus, no tooth chipping / breakage goes on! When one "changes gears", one is merely sliding a gear cluster back & forth...between dogs... using the fork!
Shifting without the clutch is entirely possible! Up or down! One merely has to match the revolutions of each of the two gear clusters...allowing the dogs to disengage and re-engage. NASCAR drivers are well known for their clutchless shifting (except for A.J. Foyt's drivers! He'll be "unhappy"!).
To visualize..."Dogs" are very strong "fingers" that interlock, like your fingers... on both hands. Rotating dogs interlock to turn adjacent gear clusters.

Realy , the term synchromesh isnt used any more ???

Best go tell Quaife , one of the world leading race car gearbox makers they have it wrong

https://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page12.htm

Oh yeah , and GM too
https://www.5speedtransmissions.com/gm_syncromesh.html

Oh yeah , and Penzoil too
https://www.pennzoil.com/products/gea...cro_fluid.html

Best edit Wiki while your at it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_...on#Synchromesh

But seriously . while the term is still widely used (and accepted as interchangable) it is not correct , synchronizer is.

WOOOOOWW are we talking motorcycle or car manual transmissions? Car transmissions are still moving gears back and forth on splined shafts otherwise you wouldn't get gear grinding noises or have syncros in them. Motorcycle transmissions use dogs like you say as well as old three speed and more recently 5 and 7 speed hubs in bicycles but cars still have syncros and require special lubrication properties so that they grab enough to syncronize the speed of the clutch disk input side shaft to the output shaft speeds. Race cars are totally different animals and I don't profess to know how they work.

OR DAMP from moisture Oh I hate that when it happens in my xB slip and grab slip and grab drives me crazy until I slip it a little extra in 2nd and dry it out.

You're both correct / incorrect...for Honda transmissions, anyhow. Ted is right in that the gears are ALWAYS engaged, but JanGeo is right in that the transmissions use synchros instead of dogs. Gear-Speed used to sell a dogbox with straight gear teeth for B-series Hondas (still had constant mesh gears), but it was expensive and for race application only. Synchros differ from dogs in that they have a braking surface to match the gear's RPM to the shaft's RPM, while dogs just have a catch. Smooth, slower shifting is possible with synchro transmissions, while dog boxes require quick and hard shifts to prevent damage. Let me reiterate that my manual transmission knowledge stems ONLY from Honda B & D series transmissions.

juddering
 

Yeah, this has definately been happening in 1-2 shift, and now on bad days on the 2-3 shift on cold starts. It doesn't happen when the car is warm at all. GREAT :mad:

No one's mentioned this so I guess I will. To test your clutch (this is not really good for your clutch, so only do it when you have reasonable evidense that something is wrong)

Get up to 15-20 mph
Push in the clutch pedal
Put the car in your highest gear
Rev the engine to somewhere around the peak torque point
Release the clutch pedal, and at the same time, floor the throttle

if the engine immediately bogs, your clutch is fine
if the engine slowly drops revs to normal, your clutch is on its way out
if the engine maintains revs, or revs up, your clutch is gone

Hmmm.... I can shift gears (up or down) in any manual shift car without using the clutch(if the car is moving)! All that is required is to "unload" the gears with the throttle...move the cluster on the splines to the neutral position, match the revs ...roadspeed, drive gear speed... and pull(quickly) the cluster into the next position, or shift.
Sure, cars still have synchros...they just aren't promoted, anymore. Too many buyers want the automatics! And...you're not getting gear-grinding noises if you "miss" a shift...those are the dogs you hear. The synchro cones merely match the speed(s) with their slippage friction prior to dog engagement.
Oh, "race cars are totally different animals"? Insofar as cluster gears are concerned? Don't you believe it! Ask Hewland....

Matt -

I've never had a manual transmission that I couldn't slip out of gear. I never made it a habit, but I could always do it gently (no load on the engine, like everyone else has said). I did it accidently the first time on my VW Karmann Ghia, and nothing happened, so I didn't worry about it. Manual transmissions are GREAT!!!!!

If you did have a problem you are well within your minimum warranty.

When I had my 2nd Gen CRX, that was the smoothest clutch I ever had. No break-in period at all. Is it the same for the Fit?

CarloSW2