Stability Control - required!
 

Everyone catch the news recently about mandatory stability control being added to vehicles to prevent rollover and skidding. Some of the videos they showed were some pretty poor handling sedans that went into a rear wheel drift pretty easily. Nice to know that I have it in my xB already and it seems to make beeping noises when it starts to kick in - turned on some sand one time. Man the video of the SUV doing a roll over and over down the highway makes you think twice about being anywhere near one of them. I knew they had lousy suspensions but dang that was pretty bad . . . Woman driver btw and she admitted to over correcting.

theclencher - word! I dispise SUV's for these reasons. People have the misconception that they are useful and economical...

I don't like them either, but...
 

I don't like the overly-large SUVs out there rolling and skidding out of control, but like modern safety advances such as airbags, Stability Control can do what a human driver cannot: that is, brake each wheel independently (and in anti-lock fashion) to recover from an oversteer/skid or some understeer, so you don't go spinning/sliding out of control. I can see how this would save many lives -- not only those driving SC equipped vehicles, but also those around them who could be a target for a collision.

Statistics show that a large number of single-car crashes and fatalities could be avoided with the addition of SC (even in small cars). Emergency maneuvers, even with an expert driver, can yield an uncontrolled situation. Most novice/average drivers don't even know what a skid IS, let alone how to correct it. Ask them and you get, "Steer into it". OK, what does that mean. "I dunno". Exactly.

For those that have a problem with it and want to do do-nuts in the mall parking lot when it snows, it can be switched off (but with Mercedes - only marginally so). Otherwise, it's there to be prepared. The added weight and cost would be minimal. A lateral accelerometer with a circuit board, tied into an already existing ABS system is basically what it amounts to. Additional info is gathered from speed sensors in each wheel to add more feedback to the program. If you've never experienced it, then I can't really describe the sensation you get. I've driven a sedan on a gravel road with SC. To test the system, I would take a safe corner with oversteer (meaning the back-end of the car is sliding out and the car is no longer following a the intended line, and is started a sideways path). Within milliseconds, pulses from the wheels bring the vehicle back into the intended turn, with maybe a slight intrusion of traction control if throttle was applied. With the same turn and direction, I turned the SC off and performed the same maneuver. Having a front-wheel drive car, the solution was to power out of the skid, and make slight but brisk steering inputs. High-speed operation is where this would make sliding-out of control on ice/snow much less of a danger. I see countless numbers of people in the Winter who drive too fast on the highway in snowy conditions, and lose it, only to end-up in the median, a barrier, or worse.

Anyways, I'm for it, and Ford (if they're still around) will have them in all of their vehicles soon. I take comfort sending a loved-one out in a vehicle with SC, than a vehicle without, wouldn't you?

RH77

ford, who knows
 

more dismal news about ford

https://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan.../D8K5PA700.htm

Yup if people had brains and used them when buying vehicles they probably would crash them either. But cars can benefit from SC as well - a lot of fatal crashes around here in the past several years were in HONDA cars single car crashes late at night going too fast and crashing into something.

Yeah I can't turn it off SC in my xB only the traction control - was going up a steep driveway and needed to spin the tires to dig into the snow but it kicked in and almost stalled my engine - ended up rolling backwards down the driveway 16 degree incline! You are right though it is only a little electronic yaw sensor under the shifter console.

Ford - ya think Bill Ford resigned from the CEO position before that layoff happened for a reason??

I'm for it so long as I can turn it off. I like that it indicate that it's going off so the driver knows to take it easy.

I consider myself a pretty good driver and know the feel of my car pretty well but on two occasions in my VW Rabbit I almost lost it and the surprise when it happened is what almost caused me to crash. One time was on a back road where they had sanded the road after oiling it and the car started to doing a 4 wheel skid on a slight turn - back and forth at about 45mph - nothing but trees on either side - yikes! Another time was on an exit ramp when I got too close to the outside edge and the back wheels broke loose at 30mph in a 30mph ramp and fishtailed back and forth a few times until I managed to get back into the center of the ramp. DPW around here is crazy with using sand and gravel on the roads for some reason.

There is no way that that I as a driver could have recovered control under these conditions the way SC can - as it turned out it was just a matter of riding it out and working the steering wheel to regain control.

Funny thing is I have asked other Scion xB owners in Scion World about tipping an xB over and they all say it can't be done and yet I have gone around a rotary on three wheels already. The front wheel came off the ground enough to loose traction when I hit the gas.

Congrats! There are situations that I've been in, on back, rural roads where they had just completed the "Chip and Seal" -- tar and gravel. There was a ridge of loose gravel at the sides. For example, in College at age 19 in a '95 Beretta, I slowed down, took a blind curve properly only to catch the loose gravel. I over corrected twice, ended up in the both ditches, but was able to power out of the second one without any damage (thankfully). Even at low-speeds, if there was another vehicle coming, it would have been a different story. I had 2 medic friends who had LOTS of drivers training that rolled their units responding to calls. SC would have prevented both.


I agree with this statement. But insist on Driver Training for ALL ages, including the elderly. Also, yes, people, especially SUV drivers, think all of their mass and tech will save them. I've seen many instances as such, and makes people drive faster. This could be one argument against such technology. A study would have to be done to see which saves more lives, fear or tech. I think (I never thought I'd say this) increased law enforcement would help.



I have to be frank about this one: I'd give that up. Cars are getting more and more complex whether we like it or not.

Tough love! We just disagree.

Regarding the single-car Hondas, no Sc would have helped, for example, a 115 mph, into a tree collision.

RH77

Hard to say on a single car crash one was into a curb, flipped and stopped by a wire pole across the roof - no air bag could save them that time - crushed the car roof across the front seat.

As far as the complexity - actually it is a little bit of programming added to the antilock brakes with some input from a yaw sensor.

As far as never been out of control, then you probably have not reached the edge of the cars handling ability, which is a good thing, until you need to know where that edge is.

Autocross should be mandatory driver training :D

Honestly, though. You would likely get to know what happens in a safe, out-of-control situation. Many parents take their new drivers out for a run through the cones, with good results.

RH77

I did get into a skid when I was going around a turn a bit too fast driving in 4" of snow. It was scary but I maintained control. Good thing there was nobody going the other direction or it would of been 10x scarier.

Yeah the old rabbits tend to over steer like crazy and pick up the rear inside tire on a sharp turn. The News had a demo of a sedan yeah 4 door with a trunk skidding out of control without stability control - but actually they were just really sliding the back end without correcting with steering into it so it was not really a fair test. Certain cars handle really well like my Geo believe it or not the independant rear suspension really did stick to the road and in the nearly 12 years of driving never gave me any trouble or skidded and I took exit ramps at 60mph that were marked 30mph. The braking was great too when they were working properly before they rusted up.

In the ditch, 3x (same day) -- story hour
 

I will admit, that I've ended up stuck in the ditch as a result of snow -- but only one day. I was determined to work my shift.

But, 3 times that day found me stuck. I barely made it the 50-miles of backroads to work in the '97 Civic. The snow was well up to the sills of the stock DX and untreated roads with steep hills took many tries to accomplish. Once I got onto treated roads, it was fine.

Later that day, we were returning a non-emergent patient home in the E-350 van ambulance unit. I was the lucky driver and the patient lived in the middle of nowhere. We get to the driveway, and it took a steep 45-degree angle, upwards about 200 yards to the house. My partner and I didn't want to risk slipping with the stretcher trying to hoof it up to the house (I could just picture the patient sliding down the hill, sled-style)-- we had to give it a shot. With a running start and plenty of diesel torque, 3/4 of the way up, all traction was lost and we started to slide backwards. ABS probably would've helped steer backwards while sliding, but right into the ditch we gently plopped, nose up. After someone with a heavily modded Jeep helped take the patient to the house, it took both the Jeep and a tractor, to get us out (2-hours later). All tow-trucks were booked solid for hours, and we were on the non-emergency list that day. Not one of my best days as you will see :(

Luckily, no damage to the unit, so back to station we went as 2 other units saw the same fate. After a couple more calls on the emergency list, the 16-hour shift ended. Back into the Civic and homeward. On the last 2 miles of the carefully navigated trip, I hit the lowest altitude of the roadway, which had generated freezing fog on a slight bend. At around 25 mph (55 zone) I turned the wheel left, but the DX went straight -- into a field short of a creek. Firmly stuck again, it took a passerby in a 4X4 truck about 30 minutes to get me out. Damage: muffler split. Obstacles missed: "Slippery When Wet" sign.

Exhausted, on the way up another hill to the farm -- all traction was lost again, slid backwards and was was stuck in the rural road - sideways. I didn't dare take another move or unintended sliding in random directions occurred. I nearly said to hell with it. :mad: I walked the remaining mile, thawed out, and pulled it home with the farm truck.

In summation, ABS would've helped in every instance, and SC on the ice, and basically all day long, but honestly, those vehicles were definitely not made for unexpected snowstorms. It's easy to get yourself into a mess, but hard to get out of -- which is the point of the reflection -- SC can prevent that mess in many cases.

Let's do a poll (separate thread)

RH77

Yes, it was rough
 

I agree. Whose to say that day anything would've helped -- but I was determined to get to work. We were short that day due to the weather, but I took some extra risks to get in and out on the road. I haven't seen snow like that since (except maybe for visiting the Ice Festival in St. Paul a couple years ago). Cars and trucks were just sliding into the ditch. With my wife and the in-laws in the car, I had a death grip on the wheel and took it easy. Made it back to KC alive with no close-calls in the rental Taurus. That winter it was -15F up there! My eyebrows froze and had icicles from the condensation of breathing. Clencher, were you around for that? I like to visit Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana and UP Michigan. Duluth was a nice visit for work this past year. I'd move to Madison immediately if I was asked :)

Rh77

If a peanut brain is driving a SUV far to fast and turns sharply there is no electronic device going to save him.