Real time power meter
 

https://www.theenergydetective.com/frameset.asp

Just had one of these "real time" power meters installed in the house today (I actually purchased the meter a week or two back, but it was only today that the meter's transmitter was wired into our circuit breaker panel). I expect this meter will quickly pay for itself, by helping us to track down which power circuit(s) have higher than expected electrical load, and thereby which ones need "further investigation" as to what is using up "unreasonable" amounts of power. And after identifying/fixing the "power hogs", we can continue to use the meter as a constant feedback tool of the overall electrical power usage/health of the house.

Because, we have really been pretty "blind" up to this point. Yes, we have tried to slowly convert over to energy efficient lighting, energy star TVs, etc, but no matter what we try the power usage doesn't seem to go down much. So clearly we aren't properly identifying the true places the power is going, and so our efforts are little more than a "band aid". But now that we have "instant feedback", we have a tool to investigate further, and see where the true problems lie.

For example, I've already identified one of the culprits (although, sadly not the biggest one). It seems our "sump pump" is a huge "energy pig", using over 500 watts every time it turns on! While we will probably plumb a more energy efficient pump in at some point, for the time being I have simply adjusted the pump to kick on at a higher water level (and therefore kick on much less often). By identifying other hidden "energy pigs", I'm hoping/expecting this meter will quickly make a huge difference in our electric bill (which is something that years of trying to "blindly" improve energy efficiency around the house failed to do)!

BTW: If you were wondering, I learned about this meter from someone who was at one of those recent "solar tours" ( https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=1903 ). So a big "thank you" to "WisJim" for letting me know about those tours. As it turned out, a geothermal heating contractor was at one of those tours, and I explained our dilemma (we can't find were all the power is going, and not for lack of trying), and that it makes no sense to try big "energy saving" projects until/unless we identify our huge energy losses (and fix them). Thankfully, he had researched various electrical feedback tools, and suggested a "TED meter" as something that should do exactly what we need, specifically both "real time" and cumulative digital readings of power usage across our main house lines (or if the meter is moved, any individual breaker circuit we choose to monitor). And you wouldn't belive how long I've looked for a reasonably inexpensive (about the same cost as a scangauge for the car) tool to monitor such info (and now I have it, thanks to visiting a couple of those "solar homes")!!!

DracoFelis -

https://www.theenergydetective.com/frameset.asp

This sounds great! I think I want one for my birthday. But I need to know how it measures RPMs and IAT. Does it support FPR, especially in older homes that may not have a compliant sensor? I already have the tires on my house set to 60 PSI (on ropes attached to trees), so I need some way of extrapolating that efficiency.

One track mind, one track mind, one track mind ... :D

CarloSW2

yeah pumps suck a lot of power and a small low volume pump should be much more energy efficient. The old fridge if quiet probably is very efficient - its the frost free ones that suck power like crazy they typically have a big heating element in the freezer that cycles on every 5 hours.

FWIW: The TED meter has already helped me get a handle on what is going on!

I had the day off today, so I spent about 2 hours doing some experimenting with the breaker panel today (i.e. turning on/off breakers, and closely watching the TED meter to see what that did to the house power usage). This allowed me to isolated the "big pig" to two power circuits that should both have little use (with only a handful of things plugged into them). What I discovered was that both of these circuits had huge "unexplained" power usage, that tended to fluctuate wildly. I suspect faulty wiring on those two house circuits, but I will investigate further (including individually testing everything that is plugged into either circuit, to see if a faulty appliance was using up the power).

In the very "short term", I have turned off both circuits at the main breaker box. Those two circuits will continue to be "off" (at the breaker box), until I have time to identify what is really using up the power on those circuits. If I can trace this back to something I can identify and deal with (such as fixing a wiring short, or unplugging a faulty appliance), than I'll turn the circuit back on (and monitor to see if the problem reoccurs). However, if after my testing there is still unexplained power usage on those circuits, they will stay off until I have the time/money to pay an electrician to trace all the wiring in them (to see where the power loss is). And those two circuits appear to be "the big boys" of power usage in the house (I have roughly cut the home power usage in 1/2, by just turning off those two power circuits)!

And I'm also getting a handle on some of the other (lessor, but still significant) "power pigs" in the house. As already mentioned, the "sump pump" was a bit of a surprise as to it's total power usage (when on). And, TED seems to be showing that the central air blower (the heat is gas, but the blower is electric) is using around 600 watts every time the blower kicks on. While I know that fans/blowers use energy, I find 600 watts to be a bit high (although we do have a large house). The short-term "fix" for that one, is to make sure the blower isn't on "all the time" (even though it does help circulate/filter the air in the house), but instead only kicks on when the AC and/or heater kicks on). Beyond that, I guess I'll get a quote from some HVAC contractor, as to what upgrading our central air (with more energy efficient blowers) will run, and how much power that would save.

So yes, it takes a little investigation even with the meter. But with the meter, you can get "instant feedback" as to what is happening, and what isn't happening. And that info gives you a real chance to improve things, instead of missing "the real problems" because you don't have instruments to help you find them...

NOTE: I'm just starting to get a handle on things, and no doubt there is a lot of "small fry" (lots of little "vampire" power loads) that can be dealt with at some point (for example, putting power strips in to completely turn off remote TV's/DVDs/etc when not in use). But for the present, I want "the biggest bang for the buck", and the involves dealing with the big power usage first (especially when those "big energy pigs" are hidden and non-obvious).

I looked on the web site and it said 200 amp max main breaker for the house. If you have a large house is that your max or did I miss read it?

The heater blower sometimes is belt driven and the pully sometimes can be adjusted to slow it down. They have to take some power to move the air and in the winter time it makes some heat that you need so not too much can be done about that. Check for shorts to ground on the circuits that are drawing power for no reason. Underground wiring for the garage or outside wiring?? Water Bed??

I see the 200amp limit in my TED's instruction manual as well. However, I think the 200 amp limit is just for the cheapest/smallest TED unit (the one I bought, btw). I think I saw on their web site that they have (or maybe they are coming out with "soon") some bigger "higher current" models available (for a higher price). However, I didn't look closely at that details, because (as big as my house is) I still have only a single 200amp breaker (which is within the limit of the cheapest TED) as my house main.

Of course, even if you had a higher rated breaker, I (personally) can't see where you would have problems unless your load really did peak above 200 amps. And 200 amps at 110v is HUGE (around 22 kilowatts)! Even with my house's power problems, I'm nowhere near that power level (even "peak")...

BTW: The 200 amp limit I think is for the lines/breaker you are measuring, and that doesn't have to be the main if you don't want it to be. So if, for example, your house had two 200amp breaker panels, you could install TED in either of the panels (or get two units, and install one in each panel), instead of installing over the "main".

NOTE: Each TED has a 3-digit transmitter/receiver code associated with it (the transmitter code is preset at the factory, the receiver unit lets you adjust the code to match the transmitter you wish to monitor). So multiple TEDs are (according to their documentation, I haven't tried it as I only have one TED) supposed to be able to co-exist on the same wiring (presumably with the multiple transmitters hooked up to different wiring circuits of your choice), as long as their 3-digit codes are different...

Ted 5000 connects to PC ...
 

Hmmmmmm -

This is the one I would like to have, if the price is right :

I am going to tell my professor about this. I'll bet he will get one.

CarloSW2

It will likely be a few days before I'll be able to get any time to get back to this. But the first thing I will try is to disconnect EVERYTHING that is plugged into those circuits, and then see if the problem goes away when the power is (temporarily) restored (I'm not counting on it, but it's a worthwhile test). Because if the problem goes away, than the problem was a malfunctioning appliance (in which case identifying the appliance in question is just a matter of trying them one at a time).

OTOH I'm really not counting on things being "that easy". And shorts to ground is already one thing I've considered. I just don't know how easy it is to test a circuit for a short to ground (is there an "easy" test that can confirm/deny such a problem?). And "visual inspection" is pretty much "out of the question" (as the wiring goes through walls, and who knows where else).

And FWIW there are some even more "bizarre" possibilities. For example, both of those circuits go to a house addition that was made a few years back. And I'm not sure the exact path that it takes, but the wiring might go through the ground before it gets to the house addition. So if some idiot of a contractor mistook our (internal) house wiring for the city mains, they could have run a neighbor's house off of electricity we were already paying for (possible, if a bit of a "long shot", as a lot of nearby construction occurred after our addition, and our "back yard" seemed to be where some of it was hooking into for power...

Both circuits are on a major addition to the house, that was made a few years back (about a year or two before I got into the picture). And I really don't know if the wiring is fully "within the house", or if it went underground/outside for some of the wiring (although I wouldn't be surprised with the latter, as that part of the house used to be a backyard)! So yes, it is plausible that we have outside wiring that is leaking power to ground. We just don't know yet.

But the important thing IMHO, is that I've now identified a couple of circuits that seem to have "issues". And until I have time to investigate further (and it may be tedious testing all the possibilities one by one), I at least can turn off the "troublesome circuits" at the breaker panel (and thereby save the power loss, and also keep things "safe" against any dangers that might be associated with those circuits)...

If you have a clamp on amp meter and go around two wires of the same circuit they cancel the magnetic field they create when they draw current . . . however if there is a short to earth ground the current flow will be unbalanced and you will read a current. Drywall screws into wires in the wall are the typical problem and critters chewing the wires.

Cool! Thanks for the info. While I didn't know that fact before now, in retrospect (when I think about how a clamp meter works, which FWIW is pretty much the same principal that TED uses to measure house power) it makes a lot of sense!

I do in fact have a hand-held "clamp meter". Before I heard about TED, I got it as a tool to try to track down this power usage problem, but never used it much because of the hassle of isolating one wire from a pair. Until now, I never knew that it has an even more useful (and easy to do) function as a whole circuit test for "power loss to ground"! So when I get some time to play with the wiring (given other family/work commitments, and the fact that I may be starting to get sick, it will probably be this weekend at the earliest before I get back to this), I'll run that test over the various house circuits (the two circuits I noticed the "issues" with will be "at the top of the list" for checking). That should quickly tell me if leaking to ground is a problem (and if so, which circuit(s), and roughly how much current is leaking), or if something else is going on.

The "detective work" is on. But at least now I'm actually starting to see the "real problems", vs just "guessing". Amazing what the proper instruments (along with some idea of what they are good for) can tell you. Imagine how much electric power (and the resulting electric bill) I could have saved, if I had been able to get these tools (and info) a few years back (vs just trying to improve things "blindly", and thereby continuing to pay high electric bills because I was missing "hidden" power usage).

I wonder how surprised the power company will be, if our home starts (consistently) using a fraction (1/2 of less) of the power we have used for years?

Oh well. On "the bright side", one thing that TED did start to show me, is that at least some of the places where I already worked on "energy efficiency" (while far from the worst offenders), do in fact have decent energy efficiency. Take lighting, for example. While the TED is sensitive enough to notice the power difference in even a single "compact florescent" light turning on, the extra power usage difference is small. And even when the family has a lot of lights, TVs (most of the TV are "energy star" rated), etc. turned on, the power usage is still very reasonable in those areas I previously worked on. It was the things I didn't previously think to check for, or was unable to figure out how to check for (power loss to ground on a circuit, the real power usage of the sump pumps, the power of the central air blower, etc) that seem (with the little investigation I've done this week) to be where many of the problems still remain. So if I can get a handle on some of these "big boys", and maybe do a little more with "phantom losses" from the consumer electronics (when they are turned off), I should be in pretty good shape. Because I already have some of the other "basics" (lighting, being a big one) addressed.

Well I had to order one. I also have a good Fluke clamp on meter but only I can use it at the main panel hand hate to leave the cover off. This way I can leave the “TED” sitting some where convenient for my wife to see what’s going on.

We did a similar thing on my dad’s house last spring going through every breaker and found one pulling about 4 amps. It turns out his attic lights; five 100w lights were on and had been on he thinks since just after last Christmas. Ouch! Things like that would be a lot easier to spot with this meter. Maybe I will have to get him one as well ;)

Oh our furnace fan also took about 650w when on in “fan” mode. My wife really likes the circulation and filtration (also connected to a heat recovery ventilator). So I messed with some jumpers and found I could set the speeds for the fan, heating and cooling. Of course they were all set for four, the default. So I set the fan speed to one and the fan now takes about 400w and is much quieter but still filters and circulates the air.

I figured out that my little office fridge uses .7kwh a day (week average) and is the biggest power device that runs in my office (185 watts) but for some reason I end up using an average of 3kwh a day and I still have not figured out where it is going. Laptop 30 watts - LCD 26" HDTV 56 watts - Lights 9 watts CF.

Aren't most (US) homes on 200 A service?

I don't know but when I looked at the breaker panel I had 4 200amp breakers toggled together. :confused:

Look again...you probably had four 20A breakers together. Unless you're running some very large equipment, a 200A service should be plenty for a home.

I only have 3 X 10amp fuses for my whole apartment here.

And as was mentioned already even if you have a 225 or 300 amp entrance as long as it is two wire this should work fine. More commonly I have seen dual 200 or 225 amp services rather then a larger single panel. You rarely if ever actually pull 200 amps. I do wander what the max is on the TED, but since it is using a clamp on meter of sorts there still should be an issue with damaging the meter itself.

This has probably already been mentioned here but the watts-up or kill a watt are also both great meters that just plug in to the wall and then you plug any item in to them to see exactly how much power they consume.

It 4-200 amp breakers. I have to do some research on it. I would love to install a TED. It would be just like the SG.:thumbup:

Is the four pole 200 amp breaker all connected together, as in one large breaker? Realistically the main 200 amp 240v breaker is really four 100 amp breakers, 2 paralleled for each side of the 240v then all connected to one master on/off breaker handle. This is pretty common (that’s what I have), most likely if that is what you have the TED should work.

The easiest way to tell is to pull the cover and see if you have just two wires coming in. But please if you feel uncomfortable pulling the panel cover get someone who knows about electricity or a licensed electrician to help. If you short the wires on the incoming side of that 200 amp main you short all the way back to the pole, very, very dangerous.

Here's what i'm looking at: The top 4 breakers are 200 amps.
https://members.cox.net/zpiloto/Picture.jpg

Yes thats it. The lead with the red tape and the the one that crosses over to the other top side no tape, black wire are the two you want. Basically the two large ones leading up the left side, those are the two mains leading in to the panel. The other one with white on it is the main neutral.

So the TED would work for you ;)

The Kill-a-Watt is an especially good deal for testing 110v appliances "one at a time" (or rather, one per Kill-a-Watt you own). Somewhere around the house I have a Kill-a-Watt I was using to check individual appliances. I think I originally spent something like $60 for it, and it worked well. However, I can't seem to find the thing right now, and it would be a handy supplement to TED (with TED monitoring the whole house, and Kill-a-Watt letting me easily zero in on a single plug in appliance).

So I figured it was probably time to check about getting another Kill-a-Watt. And when I did a quick google search for them, I discovered that they have come down a lot in price. I saw some places selling them for as little is $22.50! However, my google search also showed that Amazon.com is currently selling new Kill-a-Watt meters for only $29.99 with FREE SHIPPING! While that is slightly more than the cheapest price I could get, the "free shipping" goes a long way towards closing the price gap. And one thing I like about Amazon, is that they are generally very good about shipping you what you ordered (whereas some company I've never heard about is more of a "crap shoot"). So considering the minimal cost difference (when the free shipping was factored in), I decided to order my replacement Kill-a-Watt from Amazon.

I figure that even though I now have TED monitoring "the big picture" for me (which is "a good thing"), the Kill-a-Watt is still a nice device to monitor/test "the small picture" (individual appliances, or maybe even multiple related gadgets hooked up to a common power strip). For example, Kill-a-Watt is very good at getting the true monthly cost of running a fridge, so you can make informed decisions as to if it is "worth it" to replace the fridge with a more "energy efficient" model. And it's amazing how many "small gadgets" don't give useful power usage info on them, but with Kill-a-Watt you just plug them in and read out how much power they really use (both when on, and when off).

Hmmm... If I had thought about it (before purchasing the Kill-a-Watt), I would have remembered that Amazon.com has an "affiliate" program, which doesn't cost the person buying the stuff anything more (but does give a little "kick back" to the "affiliate"). I don't suppose GasSavers.org is an Amazon "affiliate" by any chance? If so, what's the affiliate link? It would be real cool IMHO, if everytime I (or other GasSavers.org users) purchased stuff from Amazon, that purchase also made a small contribution to GasSavers...

Just got mine and installed it. I think this will be the scangauge for your house. I think it will be more helpful for my wife, well and for me so I can see if something is on that likely shouldn't be.

If you have a scangauge and like it, you need one of these ;)