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-   -   LRR tires "Green Seal" Report March '03 (http://www.fuelly.com/forums/f8/lrr-tires-green-seal-report-march-03-a-3875.html)

Brian D. 02-12-2007 07:58 AM

LRR tires "Green Seal" Report March '03
 
I am SURE everyone has seen this report from Green Seal by now (low rolling resistance tires).

http://www.greenseal.org/resources/r...resistance.pdf

Unfortunately, this very informative information has introduced me to a new problem. Even the lightest LRR tire that I can find for the size that I want (195/70/14) is still 3LBS heavier than a non-LRR tire (read: a tire that I have no rolling resistance information on whatsoever).

My question to the group is, what would you do....opt for the 3LB heavier low rolling resistance tires...or the lightest tires that I can find for this size (without regard for any rolling resistance)? Comments? Suggestions?

cfg83 02-12-2007 08:11 AM

Brian D -

Thank You! I haven't seen this report and I am in the market.

This doesn't answer your question directly, but the Michelin MXV4s come in other sizes :

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=1

So each of these tires may come in different sizes/weights too.

I would look for comparable specs in the brand/model of tire listed. Go look at TireRack.com for info. When you click the Specs you get all the tire weights for the model of tire.

CarloSW2

skewbe 02-12-2007 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian D. (Post 40514)
...My question to the group is, what would you do....opt for the 3LB heavier low rolling resistance tires...

Very curious, I wonder if this is a gross oversight on the part of the manufacturer? I.E. if the testing method was to see how far something rolled after being brought up to speed, then a heavier tire would roll farther (and subsequently be incorrectly labeled a LRR tire).

Hopefully they measured the actual force on the tire at a given load/speed, but you never know...

rh77 02-12-2007 11:17 AM

CR
 
Consumer Reports does rolling resistance tests on all tires tests since about a year ago (it was intermittent before that). I'm too cheap as of late to renew my online membership to see which ones are best :rolleyes:

At the time they allowed reprinting of the info for educational purposes (being non-profit). They may break them down by size/weight -- not sure (for comparison)

RH77

cems70 02-12-2007 12:35 PM

Brian D.,

I was researching LRR tires in the correct size 165/70R13 for my '95 VX last year and came across Vredestein Quatrac2 tires. 195/70/14 weighs 21 lbs:

http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20...ed_quatrac.htm

Also, I bought 2 sets of Nokian tires for my VX over the time I owned it. Nokians are LRR tires and very lightweight, at least in size 165/70/13, so you may want to check them out as well:

http://www.nokiantires.com/en/DEFAULT.ASPX

The Nokian NRT2 (discontinued) is one of the tires in the 2003 Greenseal Report, and I'm certain their other tires are also LRR...they seem to have a commitment to fuel efficiency and performance. Let us how the Vredesteins and Nokians compare weight-wise to the LRR tire you found.

Steve

Brian D. 02-13-2007 04:28 AM

Steve,

Thank you very much for this information. I was looking at those Nokians, but it looks like they must be purchased online...or not at all. Were these a special order for you? I know of no local tire dealers that carry these.

cems70 02-14-2007 03:12 AM

Brian,

Click on "dealer locator" on that Nokian site or here it is:

http://www.nokiantires.com/en/locater.aspx

There should be a dealer within 50-100 miles of you. There were several within 50 miles of me, and I was also able to get the tires special ordered through a local tire store chain.

I highly recommend the Nokians. When I replaced the original crappy Dunlops on my car at 50k miles. I tried 6 different tires at the local tire store chain who had a "30 day or 1000 mile" guarantee. At the time, I was commuting 700 miles per week all conistent highway driving, so I was able to get an accurate measurement of FE within a few days of trhying each tire. I finally stopped taking the recommendations of the salesman and researched and found the Nokians myself. My FE w/ the original Dunlops was 54 - 56 mpg. With the other 6 tires I tried, it was 43 - 48 mpg. With the Nokians it was 52 - 54 mpg. And when the Nokians were almost bald at 80k+ miles, they handled better than the original Dunlops handled fresh off the Honda dealer's lot in 1995. You won't be disappointed w/ Nokians, and in my opinion it's worth going a little out of the way to get these tires.

You may want to call Nokian at 1-800-565-2525 and ask them which tire has the lowest rolling resistance. I called them several times for advice and info when I was researching tires.

Steve

Brian D. 02-14-2007 05:44 AM

Thanks again, Steve. I see there are quite a few dealers (all STS) in NJ...so I'll check them out.

Did you say your Nokians were the "Vredesteins"? You mentioned the NRT2's being discontinued...so I'm just wondering which Nokians I should ask for when I call the tire dealer.

cems70 02-14-2007 06:26 AM

Brian,

Sorry, no, I probably wasn't clear. Vredestein is a different tire manufacturer, and not well known in the US. They make a tire called the Quatrac 2 which i was going to purchase to replace the worn out Nokian NRT2 tires on my Civic VX (because Nokian discontinued the NRT2 a couple of years ago). I didn't purchase any tires because I sold my VX a couple of weeks ago.

The Vredestein Quatrac 2 is listed as a LRR tire. I emailed Vredestein for some data, and they would not release anything to me. All they said was that the Quatrac 2 has low rolling resistance. Reviews I read from Europe, where they are more common, indicate they rank high in LRR and other performance characteristics too. There are, however, only a few Vredestein dealers in the US. So, after shipping, it'll probably cost you more per tire than if you bought Nokian tires directly from a local dealer.

From my past conversations w/ Nokian (and from my experience w/ 2 separate sets of 4 Nokian tires on my VX), I know the tires are LRR. They are also very lightweight compared to other tires and have great all around performance. That's why I can personally vouch for Nokian tires and would personally go with a Nokian tire.

cfg83 02-15-2007 04:26 PM

Brian D. -

The Green Seal report led me here :

http://www.energy.ca.gov/transportat...nts/index.html

Which led me to this document :

http://www.energy.ca.gov/reports/200...-001CRVOL2.PDF

In figure 3 of the above document, there is a cool graph on the increase of FE with increased PSI.

I went to Tire Rack and looked for the highest PSI in your size and found these ($48, 51 PSI, 18 lbs) :

Sumitomo HTR H4
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.j...e1=yes&place=7

For me, I think the following Continentals will be my next set of tires because they are one size larger than stock, middle priced ($68), rated at 51 PSI and weigh 18 lbs :

Continental ContiProContact
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.j...um%3D965HR5CPC

Both of these tires are "sister tires" to the ones mentioned in the Green Seal document.

I'm not vouching for them, but I think a "high Max PSI" tire can serve a GasSaver well.

CarloSW2


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