FE Team Challenge - discussion
 

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Challenge results posted in this thread: FE Team Challenge: stats & current standings
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With the upcoming FE season right around the corner MetroMPG and I decided to have a friendly FE competition. We took turns picking 4 other cars to compete against each other as a team. We will use the new EPA values and average the team % EPA to determine the winner. MetroMpg will be posting updates and results as the competition moves forward.

My team will be composed of:

Kyoto Camel too-Lug_Nut
The green machine-repete 86
Peugeot 405-BeeUU
Jetta Wagon-Brock.

MetroMPG team will be composed of:

DOHCtor Green MPG-Diamondlarry
90 Laser-DRW
Keeps on rolling'-basjoos
The Sable- ELF.


We will be starting the competition on Monday the 12th no real ending date we'll see how it goes. The rules are as Follows:

1. Must have at least one gaslog entry every 30 days.
2. Minimum fill must be 3 gallons.
3. Must record all fill ups.
4. There will be a 5% penalty to the team EPA for fills of less then 3 gallons or no fills with in 30 day.
5. Competition will be based on combined team % of EPA using the new numbers since that's what the Gaslogs will reflect.

We will be using new EPA numbers so go Here and make sure your numbers are correct. We'll post team %EPA in a couple of days to give everyone a chance to make sure theirs is correct in the Gaslog.

Winner get bragging right at GS and King for a day. Air up those tires and let the competition begin.

What kind of rules did you have for picking the teams?
You didn't just pick from the top 10.

You're right, ELF. Rather than simply doing a "battle of the top 10", Z's idea was to mix things up by aiming for a diverse cross section of vehicles:

- at least one vehicle with automatic transmission
- at least one vehicle significantly modified from "stock"
- at least one vehicle with a V6 or bigger
- at least one 4-door vehicle

Where we had a little leeway was one car could meet more than one requirement. EG: a 4-door automatic meets 2.

Anyone have any team name ideas?

Cool. I wish I had a FE Team. : (

Perhaps, but I don't know about other people, but I don't fill up often. I try to avoid driving locally unless it's too far to bike, raining, or carrying alot of equipment. Unless I'm on a trip, I only fill up the tank every few weeks.

For example, my last tank fill-up was on the 27th of February. I have since used about 2 1/2 gallons, and may be filling up soon just to keep it from settling for too long.

theclencher -

Maybe for people that do "small fill-ups", they could agree to use a Jerry Can to measure the gas put into the tank.

CarloSW2

theclencher -

OK, then let's make it more complicated, since it is only for the duration of the FE Team Challenge. How about an accurate "1 gallon" measuring cup and/or thingy of some kind. Fill up the Jerry Can at the gas station, measure into the cup at home, fill from cup into the car at home. There would be some gas evaporation along that path, and the need for some safety precautions, but maybe the greater accuracy would be worth it.

Just making more work for eveyrone involved, ;) ,

CarloSW2

This looks like it will be fun. Let the games begin!

Zpiloto, which will you use, the Toyota or the Daewoo?
I've updated my 'garage' entry with the current 2008 revision of the 1997 numbers. Interestingly, the EPA old numbers for the car were lower than the vehicle manufacturer's numbers I had been using, and the 2008 revisions are lower yet. If this trend continues I'll be an Uber-miler in no time.

I think that the jerry can idea is going to be a pain in the ***. I'll just have to try to drive more.

Or a person can just fill to the very brim of the gas tank opening. That's what I've been doing (Hence the latest fill was over tank capacity).

I think there should be a chart with "gassavers.org teams" with an overall % over EPA score. If we had everyone on a team of 4 people it could be really fun (or really dreadful, but whatever. It's not like we're going to hold hands :D). Sometimes "every person for themselves" mode is kinda lame.

This is way cool!

Sweet idea, I'm somewhat jealous, I won't be driving much at all until 2009, :p

I'm looking forward to this. It does make a difference when it's being done as part of a team. I hope I don't let anybody down.

I'm open to suggestions.

I think Z's idea was to work out the "bugs" and do a trial run with these 2 teams. Then open it up for more teams.


Me too. I figure it's the most accurate way to gauge it. The downside is potentially feeding fuel to the evap canister.

I hear you. I'd be lying if I said this impending competition wasn't partly responsible for me installing the XFi cam this afternoon :P

I've got to update my EPA to the new figures now...

I'll throw a couple out. How bout Evergreen or carbon neutral.

I have always "overfilled" to the rim of the filler for many years and have had no problems with the vapor canister. This is probably one of those YMMV things. My figures are currently the new figures so it looks like I'm set.

Yes it would. But it all averages out if you are logging all fills. We just have to take the system the way it is. If you look at gas logs almost everybody is making a lot more than 3 gallons a fill. The gas logs show the really big dispairities usually come from less then 2 gallons. Some people fuel usage is so small that 3 gallons is about all they can get in 30 days(Which at GS is a good thing). I wanted a fill every 30 days so that seasonal differences would be calculated in. I also didn't want to make it so complicated that it would be impossible to police and take all the fun out of it. I just though it would be a fun way to stay at the top of our game.

I agree with clench. Gas will not go stale in 30 days maybe 60-90 days.

Hey that's great the less gas the better.:) But theres a penalty if it's less then 3 gallons. Why not shoot for 5 gallons, if possible, or 29 days. You probably have 90 day before it starts affecting performance. Heck just look at MetroMPG.:D

I'm using the Daewoo woo. The Prius is normally my wifes daily driver.

Yea, that's pretty impressive. I notice that you didn't have the wagon numbers in there. At this rate you'll be making diesel by 2009.:D

See earlier post about minimum fill. Let's not make this so complicated it takes all the fun out of it.

My EPA is updated. I'm going to start a "results thread" so we can post the details of our cars up front and figure out our team average over EPA. Then we can assign the handicap to level things out (if need be).

So youz guyz are using the new EPA modifier?
edit- OIC. When in rome, eat brains.

Handicap
 

Do I sense a bit of worry already? :D

Can teams have multiple cars from the same poster?

MetroMPG,

If you want, I can hook up a very crude interface for you to enter the teams that would then update an image so that there can be a visual display.

The chart would then upgrade every time a gaslog entry is added/updated.

I should be able to whip it up in an hour or so.

I'm not sure what you mean but a poster can have multiple cars but can only use one in the competion.

In anticipation of the competition I changed my oil to ELF CRV 0-30 full synth (read not cheap). I had the oil and had been planning on doing it at 60k, but changed 1.5k early ;)

I also swapped my big sticky snows out for my summer Michelin Energy 4's. The tires alone usually drop me about 4 mpg so hopefully I will get those back. I just hope we already got our last snow storm :)

I also typically fill up about once a month, about 14 gallons or so and about 900 miles. I can just fill up every three weeks to makes sure I make it and not run it below a ¼ tank like usual. I will go fill up after work.

This sounds like fun ;)

I just changed my oil too! I got a case (12) of VP racing 5w-30, this stuff is 100% ester synthetic. Normally its around 12$ a quart, But I found a closeout deal 35$ for the case. Thats about 2.99 a quart.:thumbup:

If basjoos mixed number is suppose to be 38 MPG I have the team EPA numbers as:
Team 1 (Man, we need to come up with a name)
77.92 %

Team 2
68.05 %

That's almost a 10% advantage for team 1. I think we need to be a little closer starting out. Why don't we add 7% to team 2 to bring them more into line. I'm guessing 1-3% for Metro cam swap since we don't have any data on that.

This of course depends if basjoos numbers are incorrect.

I updated my car to the new EPA numbers (42/33/37).

Under Modifications...

NICE swap! I too wondered about the 130+% above EPA.

Lug_Nut needs to use the gas numbers. His wagon has been modified so it goes along with other modified cars.

From a previous post:
I think we need to be a little closer starting out. Why don't we add 7% to team 2 to bring them more into line. I'm guessing 1-3% for Metro cam swap since we don't have any data on that.

I think we have 2 more things to iron out.

1. I think we should give team 2 a 7% handicap to start everyone at the same level. We'll keep that through out the competition.

2. The offical stats will be posted every 30 days. I think that it would be good to have weekly updates to see how it's going. The weekly stats would be based on fills and or FE instrumention(SG or SmID) if you have it. If you do not fill in a week just give the MPG for the tank off the SG. These numbers are just estimates because we go by actual fill data. We can have a thread for weekly updates that everyone post to on Sunday. When you record the data on the thread just list if it's actual or SG data and only one entry per week per car. If you don't have FE instumentation then will just use what's in the gaslog for your previous % epa.

Why don't we see who wins according to the % improvement each team makes above the starting epa numbers? This way we don't need handicaps and can avoid the inaccuracies of computing a handicap. For example, Team 1 starts at 77.92% and improves to 85%, a 9% improvement. Team 2 starts at 68.05% and improves to 75%, a 10% improvement. Team 2 wins!

I'm fine with that. Metro is that something you can work into the spread sheet?

Sounds good to me, yup.

I still haven't filled up yet. Does that mean I haven't officially started?

Do I have to bite the bullet and buy expensive gas, or can I wait until March break is over? :o