Just picked up a Jetta - ?? about SVO systems
 

Well kids, I am making a deal to get a Jetta diesel. The history on the car is incredible. EXCELLENT original paint, interior, FULL MX records & reciepts, cruise control and it is an '86! Really nice car, I'm impressed though I did give a little $$$ for it - it only has 111,000 miles.

My question is..........IYO, what is the BEST SVO system out there. Why do you think it is? So far I am leaning towards Frybrid. The guy that is sellling it likes Greascar (or however you spell it). Anyone with knowledge have input?

Thanks.

The one you make yourself.
Or anything except for lovecraft. ;)

sry i was just wanting to know what a svo is if anyone can point that out

Sorry about that. SVO stands for Straight Vegetable Oil - WVO stands for Waste Vegetable Oil. I have a high school buddy who has a eating establishment who will offer me up whatever WVO I can use. No, I didn't get out of high school just last year. ;)

omgwtfbyobbq-I don't have the time, nor the patience to make my own though it does seem like it wouldn't be too hard.

Just wondering, in the jetta where would you put the second tank? would you use the original for the oil and get a small tank for the normal diesel?

Cool - I hope you'll keep a thread going with the details. Is this your first diesel?

in some ways I like the design that uses the spare tire well for a 2nd tank, altho when you need the spare tire you really wish you had a spare tire!
I haven't looked at kits in a while, so off the top of my head I don't know what the differnces in them are.

haha thanks all makes sense now

The 'best' system is the one that makes no compromises, I haven't seen one yet that meets that. The greatest hurdle to me getting one for my diesel is the packaging. The spare tire well is frequently given to a second fuel tank. I have problems in giving up the security of a spare tire or of giving up storage space to relocate the spare.
The routing of the fuel lines, second filter, hot water lines, "T" fittings, six way valves, temperature monitoring gauges, and on and on can be integrated into the existing systems to work without leaking and also be aesthetically pleasant, but I haven't seen one done that way yet. They all look to be cobbled together from bits scrounged from cast off hardware left over from other failed projects.
Adding an SVO/WVO kit is a great way to depreciate the value of a diesel.
The neatest, least troublesome, SVO/WVO system I've seen is the Elsbett single tank system, but it is far more costly than the home-made (whether installed at your or some professional's "home") kits.

It's my opinion that the same funds spent on a SVO/WVO vehicle kit would be better spent on a system to convert the VO into biodiesel.

I agree with Lug_Nut. Just make sure to replace all your rubber fuel lines after they get spongy on biodiesel (Or WVO.), and watch that injection pump! There are a couple seals that will eventually go iirc, and one of them can leak biodiesel on to your timing belt. That would take your car from $$$ to $$$$! ;)

Great Climate
 

Furthermore, you're in a great climate for such an experiment. I've heard of problems with cold weather and gel problems, so Florida rules that out :thumbup: .

Best of luck -- I'd love to see what transpires!

RH77

Lug_Nut- I just looked at the Elsbett single tank system, I know the Frybrid is expensive but I am still leaning towards it. I'm surprised you say it is a great way to depreciate the value of a diesel. Everything I've looked at with a kit installed seems to go through the roof on prices. A reason why I'm installing my own kit.

omgwtfbyobbq- I've slowly been swaying away from Biodiesel though I do have a perfect building/shed for manfacturing it.

Ryland & nathan- The second tank will be going in the spare tire well. I don't mind losing the spare. I've driven millions of miles in my life with a whole 2 flats. I just jinxed myself :eek:

MetroMPG- I will document the install well. Expect a full photo tutorial on the install and use.

Again, still leaning toward the Frybrid. I wish you guys could do some more to talk me out of it...........Greasecar? etc....

THANKS FOR EVERYONE'S INPUT

I'm biased against the VO fuel. I live within 100 miles of four retailers with ASTM certified B100 biodiesel. My supply to demand ratio is quite high. I don't have any need or desire to make my own. I don't bake my own bread, nor brew my own beer either.
My valuation of a diesel vehicle plummets when I discover that it has been run on VO. I believe it to be a ticking time-bomb worth only parts. But that's just the opinion of me and a few others that have seen the results of WVO/SVO engine post mortems.
I've seen the "China Syndrome" results of hung up injectors that stuck on VO. I sold one of my spare 1Z TDI engines to an avowed VO proponent when he melted through his #3 piston at about 30,000 miles of VO. He never used VO again. The $900 he paid for my engine would have bought 300+ gallons of biodiesel, enough for 15,000 miles. The amount he paid in labor to have it installed was another $500. The greasecar kit was another few hundred dollars. His saving for 30,000 miles? Zero. He soon sold the car at a deep discount under NADA value due to the carpet holes (for fuel lines) the stench and stains of numerous spills in the interior, the holes in the dash for the gauges and switches. Basically he sold it for its value as a parts car.
I've seen the three destroyed injector pumps (at about 20,000 miles and $800 each) on a VO using boy-racer that has an apparent equal supply of testosterone and cash to spend on pumps. He's so far behind in cash flow that he has no way to recoup his loss.
I have 165,000 miles of personal use on biodiesel, mostly B100, with an annual rate of B90 due to winter blending, with zero problems. I see what works for me. I see what didn't work for others. I see no reason to repeat what I consider to be their mistakes.
Now, Your IDI diesel has prechambers and a lower pump pressure to go with the lower injector cracking pressure. Your engine will tolerate the variations in VO for a lot longer than a higher pressure TDI will. I am not above blending WVO (when it is given to me) and B100 for use in my IDI lawn tractor, but if and when the tractor breaks down, I'm already at home.
My own car and VO? Never. Any future car I might buy? I won't if it's run VO.
I wish you better luck than those friends of mine had if you choose to go the VO conversion route. I look forward to your 100,000 mile report. You'd be the first of which I have knowledge of reaching that mark.

Imo a properly setup IDI vehicle on WVO shouldn't have any problems. As long as you start up/shut down on diesel/biodiesel, everything is filtered/heated properly, and it isn't exposed to too much air/heat/steel, an IDI engine should go a long time on WVO. Also, make sure the injectors are rebuilt and at the right breaking pressure, pump is timed correctly, etc... Supposedly a few have gone, or are near ~100k miles but as usual YMMV. Most of the newbs w/ internet access still haven't put enough time on their systems to hit 100k, and the oldies who have been doing it for years or decades probably won't go around advertising it.

the first person I ever met who was running waste oil has been doing it for over 10 years now in the same 1982 VW rabbit, and hasn't had any problems, that being said, I think I prefer the idea of doing bio diesel, or figuring out a way to get the heater inside your normal fuel tank, so your normal fuel tank is for veggie oil...

I just got back from picking it up and ended up with some "surprises".

The surprises were, I had no idea just how extensive the records were. I'm ready to put it all in a phot album. I just don't have the heart to even do a repaint, the original paint is too nice. I also need to tint the windows quick to save the interior - the car has obviously been garaged it's entire life.

So, now I am the second owner (according to the records) and the car was also bought locally for $9500. I even got the original sales invoice! That's the tip of the iceburg how extensive the records are. :D When the guy described it for sale, he didn't even mention all this stuff. Only until I started digging did I find it. It's good to see another OCD person out there.....

Wazabi: I saw an Insight - the same colour as yours - in my city today. They're a rare sight. I tried to catch up to him at a red light to admire, but I didn't pedal fast enough. :D I have never really had the opportunity to get a close look at one of these.

Well, here it is. Looks like a regular plain vanialla car. I do need to fix the A/C hose, run some injector cleaner in it, maybe get some tires as these do have great tread but more dryrot than I like (an excuse for LRR tires), MAYBE replace the clutch just for piece of mind, R&R the rear bearings (noise) & adjust the headlights.

Still VERY happy with the purchase & that's all that counts. :D

How much did you end up spending on it?

You also need to adjust the dynamic timing advance for modern fuel. ;)

If I said, then I'll have someone go and say - oh there's a better one around the corner for only $1500, but I paid twice that. ;) Don't care what anyone else says, to ME a car with history means a lot. It shows pride of ownership. Pride of ownership (to me) means the car was taken care of, the same owner had it for 21 years according to the title and original invoice I have so that says even more.

nice car, real clean!
Just wondering, when you fuel up do you have to add some kind of lubricant to the fuel due to the new low sulfur fuel?

Thanks for the compliment. I believe omgwtfbyobbq covered that. Shouldn't need any additives though on my last diesel I was a firm believer of Lucas in it. Now I have second thoughts as it is being sold at Wal-Mart. Lucas used to be hard to get ahold of, now it is simple.

any veggie oil system, or biodiesel used on that car is going to meen that you need to replace all the rubber fuel lines, as they are they are most likely soft, biodiesel will turn them in to globs of rubber goo, I think it's Vitron, or something like that, that you need to get, it should cost about $25 for the 2 feet of 3 differnt sizes of fuel line that are needed, but well worth it.

Or polyethylene, for the stuff that's only going to ~175 degrees F. Way cheaper...
Also, the problem with dynamic timing advance/rpm can be gotten around, or diagnosed by way of adding a good portion of paraffin/canning wax or ashless 30W oil, to see if smoke at higher engine speeds goes away and mileage improves. The best remedy is to set the internal pressure regulator correctly.

Good info, Thanks. I do plan on replacing the lines. I'll be studying the VW diesel system as much as I can, got a factory manual coming too. I have got to be honest though, I hate German engineering. That being said, my Great Great Uncle (European side of the family) was the guy who designed the precombustion chamber as well as some of the early successful fuel injection systems.

PM me and I'll shoot you some history about it. Personally, I'm clueless about diesel and normally avoid German vehicles in general though I've had quite a few (Opel Kadett, Mercedes 280SL, Mexican Bug, Porsche 356C and few others I'm sure I've forgotten)

Please don't ever tell if you decide to run veg oil lines through the interior.
I can't stop you if you do, but from that interior photo (that's not a sales brochure image?), I'll also never forgive you.
Why?!? Oh, why couldn't you settle for a beater as a VO conversion candidate instead of a survivor?
That dimple at the very front right corner... Is that a factory install? It seems as though every A2 Golf of Jetta I've ever seen has that same or very similar, parking ding.

Why run hot VO through the interior? The spare tire well is perfect for a VO tank, with the lines exiting right next to where the soft lines for the stock fuel tank are. Coincidentally, the perfect place for a 6 port solenoid switch. :D

Lug_Nut- I can assure you, I WILL NOT run it through the interior. I will be cutting minimal holes in the car for the total install, as well as splicing into electrics. The tank will be a rectangular unit that will fit flush up against the front of the trunk so I will be keeping that spare tire.

I understand your feelings about the car being a survivor, it really is a true find. Honestly, to me I don't have quite as much of an issue with it as I have seen worse. If you're familiar with mid-year Corvettes (63-67) there is a gentleman who has cut up many - Rod Saboury - he did what I consider to pure evil back around 1984 (and still does it today now that the cars are in the 100's of thousands!). He cut up a VERY rare ORIGINAL 20,000 mile survivor '63 split window Corvette. This car was so rare it had the two-bar knock off wheels, I've seen them on two cars - the prototype pictures and his! I'm very passionate when it comes to '63 S/W's, my dad bought one back at the time the article came out (he also bought one new in 1963). It has since moved to my possesion but sits rotting away in the garage as we type awaiting its restoration. It really does pain me to turn this into a veggie car, but it serves as an excellent base so I can't NOT do it either.

The love crease on the front fender is there as well as about 2 other much smaller but still significant "dings" and a rust spot below the windsheild seal on the pax side. The interior is just almost perfect except for the door panels. Thanks for the compliment on the interior :D . I think what the worse thing is, is that I live on a dirt road. It's not quite Georgia Clay, not as sticky, but still clay nonetheless. I hate this road so much I am ready to get into local politics just to get my road paved. :eek:

omgwtfbyobbq- You'll see I went ahead and chose the rectangular tank, it will fit PERFECT and I can retain the spare though SLIME and a 12V compressor will do th etrick too. (hint hint weight reduction gurus)

Depending on the duty cycle of that compressor, you could use it to keep that tank pressurized and help move that grease. ;) I'll probably go with those dollar kits and a set of patches as well as a donut, since the donut's so tiny.

dang
 

What a great looking car!!!!

I had to check the date to be sure I was not still in high school...:D

BeeUU- Thanks

UPDATE!-Today I fixed the A/C. Previous owner said he priced a new hose on the internet for $110 and called around town and found a place to do it for $50, I also checked Autozone and it was special order for $234. I checked around today and found a place that would do it for $45 BUT it wouldn't be ready today. So I checked around and couldn't find anyone. Decided to check an old autoparts store I worked at when I was a kid. A friend from high school who I got into auto parts when we were kids now works there so we were able to make a hose. Total price: $3.82!! I also had to get a retrofit kit to switch it over to R134 so total cost to get A/C charged and going was $45 PLUS I have mucho refridgerant left I can add a little to the Metro. I'm a happy camper as now my wife will ride in the car. Still need to change those rear bearings, they are driving me nuts!!

Thanks to OdieTurbo on checking a CarFax I don't feel quite as bad about tearing up a survivor. The CarFax came up with a minor accident thought I can't find anything on the car that tells me it was ever in an accident. It does need paint as it is a little worn.

Got the noise fixed today. It had a horrible noise at speed. I had a hunch it was a rear wheel bearing and I was right. It was the right rear bearings. Swapped those and the races out and it's a quiet ride now (except for the diesel noise :) ) I'm at 315 miles on my first tank or diesel and it's still above half. I'll be waiting for my Frybrid system for probably at least another month.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it. I can't wait to get my diesel going.

Diesel Chevettes are AWESOME! but rare as hens' teeth. :p