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-   -   Increase CAFE or increase gas prices (http://www.fuelly.com/forums/f22/increase-cafe-or-increase-gas-prices-4885.html)

zpiloto 06-08-2007 04:43 PM

Increase CAFE or increase gas prices
 
I know it probably not a either or question but with gas prices over 3$ a gallon consumption continues to increase. So what would be the best way to reduce gasoline consumtion or do we even need to worry about reducing use?

SVOboy 06-08-2007 04:48 PM

In the Japanese style, I will say increase gas cost and let market forces deal with fuel economy in manufacturers, with government regulation pushing cafe up slightly ahead of the natural market push towards better FE. Too much regulation will lead makers to seek loopholes and pull crap like they did with EVs in California, so, there needs to be regulation that will be "pushed by the government, but pulled by the market."

:)

repete86 06-08-2007 04:56 PM

I say both.

Matt Timion 06-08-2007 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 56074)
In the Japanese style, I will say increase gas cost and let market forces deal with fuel economy in manufacturers, with government regulation pushing cafe up slightly ahead of the natural market push towards better FE. Too much regulation will lead makers to seek loopholes and pull crap like they did with EVs in California, so, there needs to be regulation that will be "pushed by the government, but pulled by the market."

:)

excellent. This would be the perfect time for the government to be the bad guys and the auto manufacturers to be the good guys. It could really restore faith in the auto industry, if that's possible.

QDM 06-08-2007 09:08 PM

The high gas prices put a real hurt on low income people. These people don't have the money to buy a fuel efficient car and many of them have already minimized their driving. I'd like to see a new gas guzzler tax that works something like this...

A vehicle that gets 40 mpg combined city highway pays no tax at the time of sale (new). For every mile per gallon less than 40 a tax of $1000 is collected. For every mile per gallon more than 40 a tax credit of $1000 is given. Adjust the specfic numbers so the tax and credit would be revenue neutral.

Those who want to drive a Hummer could still do so, it would just cost them about $25,000 more to purchase. Those who opt for a 50 mpg car would get a $10,000 purchase incentive.

Q

cfg83 06-09-2007 02:19 AM

SVOboy -

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 56074)
In the Japanese style, I will say increase gas cost and let market forces deal with fuel economy in manufacturers, with government regulation pushing cafe up slightly ahead of the natural market push towards better FE. Too much regulation will lead makers to seek loopholes and pull crap like they did with EVs in California, so, there needs to be regulation that will be "pushed by the government, but pulled by the market."

:)

I agree with this, but isn't the Japanese economy highly regulated by the Japanese government? Does the analogy hold upon close analysis?

CarloSW2

SVOboy 06-09-2007 07:36 AM

You would think so, but the regulation isn't really as onerous as one would think. And the government is increasingly privatizing certain sectors (such as JR lines, which I think is silly). But recently I've done a lot of studying japanese environmental policy, and I lifted most of what I said directly from Japan's NC4 and things like that. Currently in Japan the most effective group at limiting GHGs is keidanren, an industrial group meeting voluntary goals. They've actually reduced their emissions (unlike everyone else). Japan is generally very wary of straight taxes and things like that, so the government tries to tailor its regulation so that it works with the economy to get things done. There's more to this, but I just woke up!

Silveredwings 06-09-2007 08:31 AM

Though it's anecdotal, I agree with Clencher. I mean is frugality important enough to buy a small car instead of a truck, or even a standard instead of an automatic? Is it important enough to learn how to hypermile it?

Who specifically is it that's actually crying foul about higher gas prices with regard to low income people?

BTW, I like the QDM-proposed guzzler tax.

psyshack 06-09-2007 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QDM (Post 56131)
The high gas prices put a real hurt on low income people. These people don't have the money to buy a fuel efficient car and many of them have already minimized their driving. I'd like to see a new gas guzzler tax that works something like this...

A vehicle that gets 40 mpg combined city highway pays no tax at the time of sale (new). For every mile per gallon less than 40 a tax of $1000 is collected. For every mile per gallon more than 40 a tax credit of $1000 is given. Adjust the specfic numbers so the tax and credit would be revenue neutral.

Those who want to drive a Hummer could still do so, it would just cost them about $25,000 more to purchase. Those who opt for a 50 mpg car would get a $10,000 purchase incentive.

Q

So what does that do for poor folks? Not a thing. And it just makes for more goverment red tape and corruption.

I say let the hummers drink all they want. Encourge them to idle and get the gas used up. This will force a change of heart for most folks. All this BS about globle warming. Which I do think is real. Just not at the levels the dooms day sayers want folks to belive. The world isnt going to end this week or in a hundered years. So let them drink it up. Sure it will hurt to see the economy have to shift and change. But its going to take major moves to change anything.

And for the record. I will fight guzzler tax or what ever you call it to the point of psychical assault. all these stupid tax games we play in the USA have almost ruined our country. I hope I dont live long enough to see it become the USAUK sucky butts inc.

psy

VetteOwner 06-09-2007 06:35 PM

lol $1000 per less than 40? every other car in the world besides hondas would be screwed thus forcing people to buy hondas! make it somehting reasonable and logical like 20 or so. its being beat by alot of cars just very few under it.

and having tax beaks for those people buying manual vs auto, there already kinda is and always has been. its usually around $1000 more for a car if it has an auto.(unless it come standard which some do) which is why i wont even consider buying a car if a manual tranny isnt offered...why should i pay $1000 more so i can be lazy..


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