fear? no, that's a ruse or people not really being honest with themselves.

"I felt a surge of power, like god must feel, when he's holding a gun."
Homer Simpson

The problem with this outlook is singular forms of defense/offense aren't the most effective against an attacker, assuming of course the attacker doesn't kill outright. Not to say that projectile weapons don't have their place in self-defense, just that it's foolish to rely solely on them. Well... That, and if someone's able ta get in yer house yer defense isn't exactly great in the first place. Not that turning a house into a fortress is easy/advisable, just that there are certain measures you can take to insure that the average robber wouldn't be able gain entry in the first place.

That was the original intent from the framer of the Constitution.

https://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5303222.html

I really like it. It was a cheap BSA from Walmart with a 5 MOA dot. I think I paid about $30 for it. It has 11 brightness settings, and an off setting. I usually use the lowest settings because it can get quite bright. What's really nice is that it has no magnification so you can actually open both eyes still see through it and aim fine. It mounts to the rail at the top of the Neos. My buddy has an AR-15 like yours, I let him try it out and it fit perfectly on the Picatanny rail at the top of the receiver if you remove the iron sight.

I hafta say I agree, especially with the current administration.

[this is directed to no one person in particular] After spending many years in the infantry, I've learned a lot about firearms. I don't know everything and I'm certainly not an 'afficionado,' but I know how to employ them in a tactical / urban environment. I've taught marksmanship & run ranges for small arms, light and heavy crew-served weapon systems, and mortar employment. Still, I just don't think I know enough.

Until we have a full pandemic or other protracted civil anarchy, I just don't see a situation where I'd carry a pistol in public. To use one in civil society, I'd have to know that I can make a decision in the heat of a random moment that jurys can't make after viewing all available facts and months of deliberation...that is to aim center mass, squeeze off several rounds into someone, and drop him cold dead in a pool of his own blood. What other use can a pistol serve? If I'm not going to kill with it, why pull it out? If I do pull it out, I invariably escallate the situation to one of "life-or-death," "me-or-someone-else." If I'm not going to pull it out, why carry it?

I don't know, maybe that's just me.

Now... I really do have to get out there and excercise my 1911A1 into some paper bullseyes. :)

"Now... I really do have to get out there and excercise my 1911A1 into some paper bullseyes."

Well said, Silveredwings!

I have owned long guns and pistols for 30+ years, most of my enjoyment is going to the pistol range with my 16yr old son to shoot paper. Great way to relax, and we both enjoy it. Don't hunt anymore, but my son may take it up some day. BTW, both my kids passed hunter safety classes, and my son took the Kansas CC class with me last spring...not for credit of course, just for the information.

So not every gun owner is a "nut". We're normal people, too. I suspect a rather high percentage of legal gun owners are normal people. I understand some folks have a phobia or fear of guns, and that's OK....one of those things we can "agree to disagree on."

I feel I need my guns for various reasons.

Self defense weapons (my pistol and my wife's pistol) are for that.

The assault rifles are mostly because they are fun to shoot, and look cool as crap. My wife used to be strict anti-gun, then I took her shooting. If any of you guys are ever in my neck of the sticks (cue banjo music), I'd love to help you safely experience the fun of firing a gun.

[QUOTE=DaX;83141]I feel I need my guns for various reasons.

Self defense weapons (my pistol and my wife's pistol) are for that.

The assault rifles are mostly because they are fun to shoot, and look cool as crap. My wife used to be strict anti-gun, then I took her shooting. If any of you guys are ever in my neck of the sticks (cue banjo music), I'd love to help you safely experience the fun of firing a gun.[/QUOTE

I second that motion. If you'd like to shoot, in the KC area, are clinicly sane, I'll shoot with you too.

Do be careful who you go shooting with. They may decide it is worth the risk of shooting a person just in case they might be game. :)
https://www.desertratdemocrat.com/arc...hittington.jpg

If there are no cars no one can die of a car accident

If there are no planes no more plane crashes

No more electricity, no more electrocution

No more Sex no more deaths (after a while)

You are obviously wet behind the ears....when the only people who have weapons are from the government, you just became a subject not a citizen,

6.5 million dead Jews figured this out too late.


Rikki

Oh yeah and...
 

I carry a handgun or two daily, along with at least one sharp pointy thingy. I am well versed in Kenpo, Shorin Ryu, and American Combatives as well, and will use force as a last resort, my wallet? Car? take em' but the moment I think my life is at stake all bets are off.. I work in bad areas, I WILL go home to my girls if at all possible.

If you choose not to exercise your 2nd amendment right thats fine, but don't disparage those of us who choose to be sheepdogs instead of sheep, after all it might just be your mom, sister, brother, or child whom one of us risks our life and freedom to protect. I suspect there a a couple of folks on this thread that are aghast at the "facist Bush regime's" actions? Trust me guys if we ever get a real facist here, you'll want the rest of us to have weapons. Especially when you are on your knees in a muddy ditch waiting for your "turn".

And just to really enrage and shock you

I believe anyone with a D or an R attached to their name is likely screwing us, and dividing us to control us.

I dont care if you are Black, Brown, red, yellow, gay, or a steelers fan as long as you are an American first.

And I kill furry woodland creatures.......and EAT THEM!:eek: :eek:


Fueled by 100% pure Organic Venison (and squirrel, um and rabbit, uh and pheasant.......)

Rikki

Rikki,

rage? shock? nope, very well said actually.

Not shock?!? 6.5 million jews asked for it and not shock? Culture shock if nothing else. What of the mom that does not want her son to kill for her? No respect.

Are we mad at the criminal element or the victims here?

my collection 357 Rossi, 870 pump rem shotgun, 2 180+yrs old rifles with steel buts(I think its a Burnside) one is a 50cal one 46cal/sniper?? breech loaders(no ammo/to much rust). guns always loaded unless niece or nephew comes over. Wifes firearms are in her dads gun cabinet 12 rifles/shotguns. she was a fine hunter back in the day in Louisiana. If i ever needed to carry, my dad has a lightweight all aluminum snub nose 38 that would be nice for good mpg in my veh. ;)

[QUOTE=4bfox;83110]"Now... I really do have to get out there and excercise my 1911A1 into some paper bullseyes."

Nice I would like to get one as my first handgun. There a piece of history and are amazing guns.

What do you guys think of a Sig P226 .40 S&W and/or Mossberg 500 hs410 to be used specifically for home defense/occasional shooting range? I want something well built and reliable but budget friendly (I know, I want it all). As for this debate, I live by the thought that guns are weapons that should be respected, and like automobiles and condoms, should be used carefully and competently to prevent accidents. Plus I don't live in Mr. Roger's neighborhood and I like to be prepared for when the occasional **** hits the fan. Mak

Any of the sig, glock, springfield, beretta, smith and wesson pistols are excellent guns. Pic the one you like and learn to shoot it well. My personal preference for defense is a glock 26, 9mm. Its small light and convenient. Every glock I've used has been 100% reliable. I've shot a couple of versions of the new springfield XD. The ported 40cal version is by far the most fun of any auto pistol I've shot. Its snorts foot long fire streeks in V shape out the top on either side of the front sight. In lower light conditions it frames the target.

As for the shotgun. I'm not sure I'd go with a 410. I like the 12 gauge because its cheaper shoot, more powerful, I can swap the barrel for different uses, you can more easily add accessories. I sure the 410 has its good virtues too, its probly lighter and more controllable. Research and shop around. You can actually get regular shotguns with 18-20" barrels. In the past you could even get walmart to order them in for ya.

I think I'm gonna head over to the gun message boards and see if they have any MPG tips...:D [BTW, there's a Mossburg 500 12ga shotty in my closet. :thumbup: ]

I'm not sure about other locations, but our local Home Depot has a sweet deal on 14 gun safes from Sentry - I think I'm going to go pick up one. They aren't fire rated, but are only $369 (down from an MSRP of $725). If you're curious, the Sentry model number is G5241. I've been wanting a safe for a while now to keep my firearms safely tucked away.

I managed to find one of these at a recycle place. It helps to keep things clean and safe, though it isn't as secure as a real safe. Still, the price was right and it functions basically the same. I'm not likely to find it overflowing anytime soon. Though if I tried to put all my ammo cans full of ammo in it it might not all fit.

My troops used to ask me if I was preparing for the uprising. "Yup", says I. "Which one?" they asked. "Whichever one comes first." says I.

I see that new they are about $138.

https://www.partitionplus.com/catalog...ier_locker.jpg

Mine:
S+W Model 10 .38 Spl. 4" - Dad's former service weapon
Marlin 336 .30-30 - made in '72 and still shoots 1" groups at 100yds
CZ (I for get the model) .223 - heavy barrel, great gun, still haven't found the load for it yet. Haven't bested 1" @ 100yds. yet.
Llama Comanche .22 revolver 6" HB - awesome little gun. Very accurate, very fun, great for improving your handgunning technique.
Savage .22LR (I forget the model on this one too) - good looking piece, reasonably accurate, but fun and cheap ($108 with tax at Wal-Mart!)

Dad's:
Remington 700 .222 reamed to .223. Leaves a mark on the brass, but is exceptionally accurate - 3/8" @ 100yds. Great-looking, too.
Mossberg 20-ga pump. 20 years old, never been loaded or fired, but did scare off a burglar once.
Kimber target .45 ACP. Absolutely amazing. I'd never fired a .45 before, and I put 7 out of my first 8 in the X-ring, at 10yds which blew me away. Pleasant to shoot and intuitive.

Would love to have a good Sharps rifle, even "just" a .45-70, and a kustom S+W .357 with high-viz sights, 3" barrel, and an unfluted cylinder.

Gun? Yeah... a couple. Got a an 870 for dove and deer and everything else. Got an old (mid-40s) Marlin 22 bolt gun. Got Winchester 16GA break-open single, model 48, I think. I've sold off my military stuff; last year I traded the Hi-Power close for a Marlin 336, which is my primary deer rifle. After 25 years of shooting, I've concluded that the 30-30 is a wonderful deer cartridge, and the 336 a great rifle; I should have gotten one years ago, and passed on the 30-06 and .270.

I have a muzzleloader I use for deer, too.

in the field with the Escort Wagon:
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...6e5ebbacf3.jpg

Cool! A gun thread!

The highest incidents of gun accidents occured early in the 20th century. 1904? Somewhere around there.

And of the 11k accidents, many many more crimes were de-escelated in the US by private citizens with legal firearms. Look to the FBI and some of the UCS info.

I have a few rifles that have been in the family for decades. Inherited them all after my father passed away. I have a nice little Ruger 10/22 that I made in to a "black rifle" with a Tapco stock. Haven't fired it yet in that set up.

I want an M1 Garand. Not sure which manufacturer, but I've got some friends watching. Would like a nice M1911A1 too.

Sweet yellowtail3, another deer hunter! I hunt with a Remington 700 .30-06 - always have used that caliber since I started hunting.

SD26 - the 10/22 is a fantastic rifle! My brother had one and it was a blast to shoot. There are some really cool "black gun" options out there for it.

As an update, i got a lot of goodies for my K40-GL over Christmas, so here it is in it's current state (kinda blurry):

https://a519.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...b9eebd952e.jpg

It's now got a UTG quad-rail front hand guard, GG&G front vertical grip, see-through carry-handle optics mount, and an EOTech 511 "red-dot" holographic sight. I have since purchased two 15 rd. factory Glock magazines for it, and have decided I like them better than the Scherer 31 rd. magazine. The factory Glock mags just feed better. I REALLY love the EOTech sight - it's so nice and so accurate. Definitely worth the money spent.

A lot of American police will spend forty years not taking their guns out of their holster. My hometown is located in one of the NRA's favorite fund raising areas. We have a lower homicide rate than many EU states. We have "shall issue" concealed carry. We also have few "hot" burglaries.

This fall two million Pennsylvanians will go out on the first day of deer season. That's a larger force than many Armies.


Japan is very different from the US. They are pretty homogenous racially. They tend to be pretty conformist people, group oriented and shame oriented.

I've read that Japanese police are very effective in clearing cases. Over ninety percent of crimes are solved through a confession, often the criminal confesses to spare shame for their family. Having said this, it should be noted that Japanese courts permit confessions under duress to stand. You do not have a right to silence or not to testify against yourself in Japan.

Japanese prisons are unpleasant places. Some are cited by human rights organizations.

Japanese have a higher suicide rate than the US. They accomplish these deaths without guns.

Organized crime is quite aggressive in Japan. "Yakuza" operate with relative impunity, organizing business ventures and insinuating themselves into daily life to a degree unimaginable in the US. Some are quite bold and "up front", such as the Yamaguchi Gumi.

Knifes and swords are either banned or registered in Japan. Heirloom Katanas are carefully regulated.

Guns are legal but heavily regulated in Japan. They require special licensing, testing and classes. This includes handguns, which are heavily regulated. There is considerable social pressure against ordinary Japanese obtaining the classes and licenses to own guns.

Gun control began in Japan as a way to ensure domination by the Shogun. Gun makers were regulated and guns were confiscated from peasants on the pain of death. Firearms were recognized as a means for a poorly trained peasant to defeat a very well trained Samurai. Samurai recognized that dominating the people, forcing them into bondage as serfs, required that they alone possess the ability to effectively kill others.

After the people were sufficiently disarmed Samurai were solely permitted to wear two swords. They were also permitted to execute on the spot anyone who was "untoward". Known as "cutting and going away" this practice rarely occurred but was legal up to the time of the Meiji restoration. Peasants worked the land and were taxed to pay their overlords.

One of the objections against a modern military in Japan was that peasants would once again be exposed to firearms and would master their use. Though I am sure that Samurai were excellent shots in their own right.

The US confiscated guns during our occupation of Japan. We also wrote a Constitution for Japan which did not recognize the right of the people to own modern means of self defense. Now the Japanese are returning the "favor" by bankrolling "gun control" in the US.

I guess if anyone really wants to live in a gun free area in the US they're invited to go to Washington DC, which forbids working firearms. Isn't such a nice place to be if you're in the wrong areas. Considering how easy it is to make guns, how portable they are, and how easy it is to smuggle guns and ammunition, I don't see gun prohibition working any better than drug prohibition.

That all being said, there are sixty million handguns in the US. There are not sixty million gun deaths each year. Most guns will gather dust in drawers or safes. I think the statistics bear out that most people who own guns, the vast majority, are not violent or anti-social.

Gene

Go back to school and get "edicated"!

If you are lucky enough to have concealed carry (CCW) in your state, go get trained and licensed! Don't be a sheep!! Nobody but you can take care of yourself, and don't listen to other sheep who live in a world of denial. Yes, it can happen to ANYBODY, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE. :)

Yo, sheep boy, there ARE guns, and ALWAYS WILL BE guns, outlaw guns and only outlaws will HAVE guns!! You want to live in denial, and not carry a weapon to protect your life, that is your choice, but don't go telling others that they have no rights!! I will be prepared, and yes, thanks to me and others like me, you might have a prayer when your day of Reckoning comes and one of us is around to save your as&!!!

The Police will rarely be there to protect you in your moment of truth, and in fact they have no obligation to do so. Their job is to show up after the carnage and do the forensics of your dead body. YOU are the only one that can protect yourself in that moment. Choose your weapon, train with your weapon, and most importantly, carry your weapon!! :)

Pull your head outta the sand and look around!! There ARE no "safe" places!!

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
by BY LTC (RET) DAVE GROSSMAN, AUTHOR OF "ON KILLING."
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:

"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...

"Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

If you're looking for a good home defense weapon, I'd say there's not much better than a classic pump action 12 gauge.

There are VERY few people who will try anything aggressive after they hear that *Ch-CHINK!* of a 12 gauge chambering. Also, you can load it with shot that will do some pretty good damage, and also reduce collateral damage (at least in a legal sense, meaning neighbors, like if you had a rifle or handgun, it might penetrate too far).

That being said, I am a gun enthusiast, who very much believed that the reason for the second amendment is that the government should be afraid of it's people. I personally want to own an unregistered semi-automatic rifle of some sorts. If the government ever decides that the second amendment was purely for militias, and the National guard is sufficient militia, and they outlaw guns entirely, I want to stay armed.

I read the federalist papers, the founding father's comments on the constitution they wrote. (No, the constitution was not intentionally written vague, every one of the founding fathers wrote a series of essays about the constitution, to tell EXACTLY what they meant when they wrote it) It says in there that the need for a well armed citizenry is to keep the government in check.

+1

Good post. Across the board.

Alright, back to fuel efficient cars & guns... er, hunting... here is a 35-40MPG SUV. I've got two of them!

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...53f045f489.jpg

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...96871a141e.jpg

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...dbcd98d5d5.jpg

If only the Wagons had as much clearance as my old Cherokee...

I own two firearms both are currently used only to kill paper and clay targets. Bersa Thunder 380 a nice reliable Walther ppk clone I like it because it's thin and my big meat hooks can grasp it easily. N.E.A. HMR17 Sporter with a Bushnell 4x9 scope. I chose this because it has range. This came with a 4in target with 7 holes in it shot at 900yds (probably a calm day and bright sun). I'm good with it to about 300yds on a 6in target. and it shoots a .17cal bullet hehehe

well.... as an argument is not going to sway either side.... as a matter of fact I don't think anything will, I'll put it like this. For a couple of years while in school I lived in a really bad area of Long Beach, not exactly by choice, being a poor self supporting college student I could afford no better. After someone was mugged and stabbed to death on the sidewalk in front of my apartment (across the street from a police sub-station) I decided to arm myself.

Long story short, a year later my gun SAVED MY LIFE and probably the life of my roommate and my girlfriend (now wife). I drew, but thank god didn't have to fire.

I'd be the first person to agree that not everyone should be able to own a gun, I don't think their is nearly enough gun control in this county, and I think their should be more regulations on firearms purchases. Still, when it comes down to it I'm NOT DEAD thanks to my gun, two other people are NOT DEAD thanks to my gun, I'd say I'm OK with my decision to own a firearm.

Actually, although there are thousands of deaths because of gun violence, accidents, etc...

There are actually millions of incidences of deescalations of violence by armed citizens.

There are plenty of laws and plenty of requirements. Often, it's the follow through by the government agencies that are supposed to be accountable and responsible for those things that mess it all up.

i've fired several guns/rifles before (don't know them by name) and i would just want to know a cheap easy and reliable gun to own. i've heard alot about a glock 9mm. what are your guy's gal's opinions on that??

What do you want to do?

kill rats! lol jk :p , just home protection. :D