A Beater of an Insight
 

So in effort to reform my gas guzzling habits, today I picked up a 2000 Insight 5 spd for dirt cheap. It was a former police impound that got auction off'ed. 203k on the clock, one busted driver's side quarter panel window and a small dent on the passengers side over the rear wheel cover. The yard claims that the battery pack might be dead but considering their general ignorance on the pack, overall fear of the car electrocuting them, and the the chopped up remains of another Insights in the yard I'm wondering if there could be some life in the pack.

The car started fine on its 12 volt, idles normally, clutch action was smooth but engaged close to the floor. Throw felt odd, 1-3 were tight, 4th a bit long and 5th longer still. Gates 1-4 felt fine, but 5th seemed to feel a bit stiff. It moved under its own power. Don't really recall what the batterys SOC read but there were no flashing lights. Made no strange noises, very slight ticking while it was warming up, but it had been sitting for a month so I figured that was dry lifter noise. No clue whether or not it has had the battery warranty work done on it or not, forgot to check the VIN plate for the punch mark

With that kind of mileage what can I expect to starting failing on me?

Thanks

Congratulations!

In for some pics. :thumbup:

Cool, everytime I see an Insight, I want to trade my CRX off. Can we ask what it ran you? Don't know if it is a hydraulic clutch, but if so, the shifting issues you are noticing could be that the clutch fluid is low/needs bleeding. If it doesn't disengage all the way, it will cause the shifting problems you have.

I got it for about 2k. I think its a hydraulic clutch, I'll be going over everything next week. Pics will follow as soon as I can find my camera.

not terrible for that new of a car. the battery's almost certainly buggered with 203k on it. bleed the clutch and if it doesn't fix it, replace the slave and if still not better, the master cylinder (in order of expense). I wouldn't worry about the shifting problem till you get the clutch figured out. if you are still having problems, find out whether it's cable or rod operated shifter. if it's cable, adjust/replace the cables. if it's rod, check the bushings.

honda stopped with cable clutches in 92. It's a hydro. You can take it to Honda and pay $75 to have it diagnosed. Your battery might be fine.

Did it come with HOV exemption stickers? :D

Hrmm... Is a two seater HOV exempt all the time anyway? I mean, motor cycles are because they are at 50% or 100% capacity all the time. A 2 seater is always at least 50% :D Depending where you drive in the Bay Area - it's nice to not pay through the HOV :p

And congrats on your find... I imagine if the batteries were buggered, you'd be getting some form of idiot light... Probably not like new though :p

I wish :rolleyes: Doubt I could apply for em. But since it is a two seater who knows? HOV stickers would be icing on a cake.

I need to run it some more to make sure no idiot lights flare up. It needed a jump to start so I don't think the 12 volt had enough power to keep any DTC in memory. If they are any they will crop up after some usage.

Even if the batteries are fubar'ed 1L 3 banger shouldn't be too shabby in the FE department. 10x better than the Heep.

As for the shifter, I'm used to the Heep's stick; mile long throws with a direct hook up to the tranny along a heavy long throw clutch. The Insight is the first 5 speed FWD car I've owned so I could be misinterpreting its "feel". Its possible that its perfectly normal

Matt,
75 bucks covers a full inspection?

Honda doesn't use hydraulic lifters. In fact, if you are not used to Japanese cars, you might be surprised to know that, for the most part, valve lash is adjusted manually (typically every 30000 miles). With this said, the engine might need a valve adjustment.

If the batteries are shot, it'd be interesting to see what kind of mileage an insight can get w/o battery assist, but also without the weight of the battery pack.

Wow, that is pretty awesome. 2k for that car was definitely a great buy. I would lean on the optimistic side of things myself, concerning the battery pack. Drive it until the batteries are dead. While you are waiting for that to happen, call around to different junk yards near you. You might happen upon a smashed up Insight that has a mint low-mileage battery pack in it.

Congrats though. It should be nice to be able to just about quadruple your FE overnight!

I'm not exactly sure what the warenty is on the battery pack but so far I have not heard of anyone spending any money out of pocket on the battery pack, just try to find a price, there is none.

Really? Any reason why Honda keeps it manual? I had thought that in general that had all been phased out with a hydraulic setups.

I'd think a little worse then what a Metro might get just to weight alone. From my read of Insightcentral, the electric motor is mostly there to lower the load on the engine in high demand situations. Acceleration, hill climbing etc. The Insight doesn't have a pure EV mode like a Prius has.

I need to get a service manual for it, but I think the battery pack is part of the DC-DC converter that powers the rest of the car. It might still need it.

Thanks Erdrick :D

Supposedly the pack is warrantied for 10 years and 150k. I'm beyond the mileage mark but I figured I'll stick check with Honda if they would replace the pack or be willing to work out some kind of compromise for it.

warranties liek that are either/or. combined with you buying it from an auction they'll probably just give you the brush off.

manual lifters are cheaper by far and more reliable in a way. sure you get some valve ticking over time but they don't collapse or sieze if they sit too long or don't have enough pressure

I just know that a year and a half back I checked into the cost of the battery, and was told by the a dealer that specilized in hybrids siad that no one pays out of pocket for the battery, and when I checked online, the honda parts list had a part number, but no price.

Red -

Sounds like you found the pot of gold at the end of the Police Auction Block.

An OBDII compatible pseudo-CRX!!!!!

CarloSW2

And valve ticking isn't a big deal - check for clearance every 30 or 60K miles - shim as necessary :p I had a '97 Mazda 626 with hydro lifters... The ports were too small and they'd collapse if there was too much crap in the oil (among other reasons). The 98+ 626's IIRC have solid lifters... Not sure what the new Mazda6 has though :p

Ih8u1! ;) :)

I don't have any insightful advice but I have to say I am a bit envious. :)

Wow. Sounds like a steal!

Yeah - about half the cost of an HX and nearly double the mpg!
I think I'm starting to turn green...

No need for shims. With the exception of 1st gen Legends (which had hydraulic lifters), every Honda/Acura I've looked at has a threaded valve tappet and locknut to adjust. Just loosen the locknut, stick the appropriate feeler gauge between the end of the valve stem and the tappet, turn the tappet with a screwdriver until it makes contact with the gauge, then tighten the locknut with a box-end wrench while holding the tappet in position.

That's different from the setup with rear drive Volvos. You measure and insert shims; it's a PITA.

The good news is, you don't mess with it till it starts tapping, probably around 500K miles. Which means usually you don't end up adjusting valves unless you change the cam for a performance one. Been driving these beasts since '95, always bought used, never had a mechanic suggest adjusting them and never had a valve tap issue! To be fair though, these cars do have other things that need fixing periodically. Just not valve adjustment.

my 7m uses shim adjusted lifters and at almost 170k I'd put money that they're original and I don't have any valve noise. plenty of other noises but no valve noise.

It WILL get an easy 60mpg with no assist from the battery pack. Actually, when you drive it you want to drive with as little assist as possible. The problem is power won't be there when you need it without a battery pack. If you didn't already, pull fuse #18? maybe 14? - I can check for the right number if you haven't already reset the BCM. As already mentioned, keep checking the wrecking yards. If you can get a VIN from a wrecked car and a nice service manager at Honda you can find out if the wrecked car had the warranty work done.

The car will run without the battery pack. Also it WILL go in EV mode at about 2 miles an hour for a VERY short distance. Never tried it myself - heard of people that ran out of gas. You'll find it'll be a game to see if you can break 800 miles on a tank of gas. You have a 10.6 gallon tank.

The trannies are a weak point on the Insight. When I had mine I made sure I kept the fluid changed. Think the last time I changed it, I put Royal Purple in it though the OEM Honda Fluid is most heavily recommended from other Insight owners.

The window motor is another weak point. You need to keep the window channels lubed up properly and that should help prolong the motor's life.

If you have any other questions, shoot - I had an Insight for a long time and loved it and miss it dearly (hope that didn't sound gay but who cares if it did). I recommend getting a shop manual too. Not sure if I have a spare shop manual - I used to have an extra, also think I have an extra owner's manual somewhere.

Oh, forgot to mention - ticking is the norm for the Insight. You'll know if you're having battery problems. Do a search on "recal" on the evil Insight website. Most of the time when you ask a question they would rather spend the time yelling at you for not using the "search" function than giving you an answer over the same amount of space. I made it a point not to ask questions there as it seemed they did that to everyone. :(

Nice to know that's possible. I've often mulled over the idea of finding an Insight in need of a new battery pack. But instead of replacing it, just tossing it and running on IC only. I understand the acceleration penalty, but where else will I find a 1L vehicle in the U.S.? It would probably be more cost effective to get something with the Suzuki 3-cyl, but the idea keeps cropping up, none the less.

Without the pack it is MUCH slower than a Metro. With the Insight you have lean-burn though PLUS you have the nifty gas-mileage-o-momiter where you can actually see when you go into lean-burn mode. I believe my sweet spot on my old Insight was about 48 MPH.

The only reason I got rid of my Insight was I live a couple of miles back on a dirt road and it was beating the car to death. It was sort of a "If you love something set it free" thing. I've got a Smart car on reservation but the car will be "once in a while" car when I finally get it which will probably be about a year! I'll remain driving the diesel VWs even after I get the Smart. Oh - it is a 3cyl you can buy new in America at the moment just the waiting list is stupid long.

What's the latest info? Has it been running OK? Also, forgot to ask - what type of tires does it have as that WILL MAKE A H-U-G-E difference.

Thanks for the tips all :) Sorry about the lack of updates, haven't been able to do much.

So far been a rather frustrating week, and the weather hasn't helped much at all. Been raining like dooms day since Friday, a small break is predicted for Monday, so I'm hoping to get some things done. The rest of the week was consumed between work, and giving my sister a ride so she resupply before she goes back to UCLA.

So far its been sitting in my driveway with the busted window taped up with a bag. I did attempt to drive it but I barely made half a mile before a fairly nice police officer pulled me over for driving without plates and a complete registration (Paper work is still in processing) I got a warning and he followed me home. A perk of living less than a mile from the station. Been itching to take it for a spin since I towed it home.

Anyhoo, in that short drive it seemed fine. It drove kinda like the Heep, slow and steady, nothing really peppy. Not like my friends Civic which has a strange amount of get go for an automatic sedan. Didn't really get a chance to warm it up all the way and push it a bit. Engine did load up maybe 5 seconds after starting it. The SOC gauge was at zero. Went up one bar in my little one mile "joy" ride. Clutch engages low on the pedal. Heep has a hydrulic clutch system, along with a 6 month old clutch and it engages high up so I'm thinking that Rommie is gonna need a new clutch in the future. Only made it to 3rd (top speed was 30mph) and it shifted fine. A little stiff but fine.

12 volt is shot gonna pull it later and attempt to revive it. If its dead dead I'll replace it. I doubt there is an Optima that is small enough to fit into its little battery box, the Heep's red top looks to be 1/3 too big all around to go in there.

Tires are Bridgestone Protenza RE92, the smallest tire I have ever seen. The tread blocks are so close together it looks weird. Still has got a fair amount of life left in them. A pretty hard rubber.

Also from the cleaniness of pretty much everything underneath and the fact that everything looks like dealer parts, I'm thinking it was serviced regularly by a dealership. Either that, or its got all its original parts on everything.

Been reading on IC, Wazabi what is so special about the spark plugs? I think I'm probably due, but I have yet to pull them due to the whole A B C thing about them.

Tires: the Potenza RE92's are what you want so that is a very good thing.

12V battery: you'll want to get a fresh one in there ASAP. There is a yellow top Optima but it'll take some looking to find one. There was a recall on them sometime back but that has been a while. Your regular parts house won't have it though you'll want to go with a standard Civic battery, the OEM battery was about the size of a motorcycle battery. I just put a yellow top Autozone battery on mine though it didn't need it.

Plugs - they are indexed, that is the whole A-B-C thing. Read up on it over there at IC. If you have trouble using that sorry excuse of a search engine they have, LMK and I can find the info before you post and get flamed for not searching for an answer. (see the South Park episode on hybrids to explain some of them)

There is a website, myhonda? or something like that. There you can track your MX records, ALSO you can find out what warranty work has been done on the car etc. The site is sponsored by Honda. You need to see if the headlight recall was done as well. When it goes out, only your high beams will work and it misleads you to think both your bulbs went out simultaneously.

With the SOC being at 0, it must have been sitting for sometime. Sit with the car idling at about 2000-2500 rpms for around 5-7 minutes and that should get the SOC up to full. After that once you start driving you can check for recals. Essentially the SOC will drop from around 1/2-3/4 to nothing while you are driving. If you aren't watching, it'll sneak up and the power on the car won't be there when you expect it. That may create a dangerous situation. With the SOC at 0 right now, the car will be A DOG!!!! Get the SOC up to full then drive it, you'll be surprised at the pep.

the only shop manual thati could find for it was one those that covers every imported car over a number of years.
if you check some race catologsyou can find a compact high capasity battery as well.
the block is stamped with the spark plug index letter, that letter is stamped after the hole is tapped.
if you get around to it I wonder how deep the brake drums are, wondering if the aluminum drums will fit other civics.

You know the '84-87 CRX HF uses nearly identical drums, right? I used to use a pair on my '91 DX.

Do a search on eBay for Insight shop manuals, they come up quite often. Prices range anywhere from $20+ - $100+. You'll know the manual when you see it, it is green. The most often found one is for the 2000. I found one for $27 once and scarfed it up as it was a package deal that included an owners manual.

You can try the compact battery like Ryland mentioned but the Civic battery fits perfect and if you get a high quality one you'll get more bang for your buck. At the parts store they call for a Civic battery as a direct replacement anyway. I have seen a few people get the battery that Ryland mention and were very happy with it.

Presenting Rommie!

https://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0253.jpg
https://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0255.jpg
Powered by 3 angry squirrels.
https://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0249.jpg

I'm working on getting the FSM off ebay. Got a few bids going.

Pretty much spent today going whatever I could without having to actually unbolting anything. So far, body wise here is what I've got.

-Register and get it inspected

-New battery. Have a Wally World special the Heep killed a while ago. Its still under warrenty so I might be able to get them to swap it for a Civic sized one. Ryland, while I could get a high end one from somewhere for batteries I think its easier to get them local in case they need to be warrantied or something.

-Vacuum and wash the entire interior. Who ever owned it before me either drove with a dog or was in the process of becoming really really bald.

-Replace the drivers side quarter panel window

-Dent on passenger side, right above rear wheel cover
https://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0254.jpg

-Drivers side door lock is either destroyed or unhooked.

-Hood lock is jacked up. It doesn't look broken, but its loose. Bolt it down and I think it should be fine.

-Replace the front tow hook cover and get a replacement hook

-Replace the front drivers side engine cover

-New lift gate struts for the rear. The hatch is exceedingly heavy.

-Fix the rad support bar. Right now I'm trying to figure out whether or not its worth pulling this out. I think I could just leave it.
https://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0252.jpg
https://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0251.jpg
https://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0250.jpg

-Figure out what version BCM and MCM its got.
-Do the head light recall.
-Oil Change
-Coolant
-Figure out why the brake light is still on
-Derustify the front brake rotors

And that should be a good start :P

Addendum about the tires. Stupid me should have checked all 4 wheels. Only the back two are Bridgestones the fronts are some Hankook something. I think I'll kill this set first before I got back to OEM

Amazing how poorly people take care of their cars. At least it's going to be taken care of now.

Yeah, though I will give the PO credit. This car was almost entirely dealer serviced. Cept the tires, all the other disposables all have Honda labels.

It pays to read the owners manual before one starts messing with a car. The drivers side door lock is fine. Apparently to lock that door you have to hold the handle open then hit the lock switch. Dumb IMO

This owners manual is sweet. It actually tells you how to do most "normal" things. E.g. coolant changes, clutch fluid requirements etc.

#1 - the hood problem you mentioned. Common problem. Clean and grease the latch up good - the problem is the cable. I'm not sure if they stretch of what but I used to have to push the handle back in while the hood was in the up position then drop the hood shut. It would normally latch.

I think I had Hankook? tires on mine too when I got it, but they were a full set. I couldn't stand them as I knew how much they were killing my mileage even at insane psi's I still got shoddy mileage.

In the 2+ years of ownership I worked all the quirks out of the car before it got a mileage that was acceptable by me. Then I sold it. :o

As far as that dent goes, remember your little car is aluminum, even the body. A HUGE plus is you have the skirts. Practice, practice, practice on pulling and reattaching them. In the end you may just carry zip ties and attach it with those.

Tow eyelet. Are you definite they lost it when they impounded the car? Check under the rear tub where the spare tire is, it "should" be in tool pouch.

What's the# of the car? Is it a real early '00 or almost a '01? Mine was (I think) 2713.

Looking good though so far :thumbup: