i absolutely understand, and you give good recommendations on mostly "commuter only" cars(2 doors). i require 4 doors, so given this, i'd include the cars that cannot compare to those w/ 2 doors.

i did my own research and test drives concluding that toyota was a better choice for me. then i went w/ a less expensive chevy branded toyota.

I have a 2001 Saturn SC1, picked it up last year for $3200 and have hit over 50 mpg on some stretches. Without hypermiling you could probably average above 40 if you do mostly freeway. I started by looking at Civics... So overpriced and so many are just trashed. IMO the Saturn SC1 is the bang for the buck when you consider, 4 seater, OBDII, decent looking, enough pep, no rust on body panels (plastic), cheap parts, very basic design...

yes, those that think honda civics are the end-all solution(best FE available) really need to realize there are other great choices.

i believe it would be difficult for a 4 door civic to better my FE(in my exact driving conditions). besides, i like the way the prizm shifts. i have short arms and it has a shorter shift range.

bowtieguy - I agree on 4 doors - if you need it, then VX will not work. And Civics generally cost more, and 4 door Civics aren't any better on gas then Ford Escort, Chevy Cavalier, Toyota Corolla, etc. All those cars get pretty much 25 city/35 highway EPA MPG.

I had 91' Ford Escort Wagon a while back and it's been a good ride and is very inexpensive to buy and maintain. Sure is practical - once I had 8 people riding in it back in Daytona - can't do that in a Civic Lol

Ross

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...c9ebdb27a9.jpg

Looks like what I used to do with my '65 Plymouth wagon...no seat belts back there...don't think you can do that anymore...:(

Belloc - 2001 Saturn SC EPA MPG for Manual 5-spd 1.9L SOHC is 25MPG City/36MPG Highway and 29MPG Combined. Compare to 94' VX 39MPG City / 50Highway / 43MPG Combined EPA. Biggest problems I found with Civics so far are - some parts are expensive - O2 sensors ($170 at least), IACV ($220), TBS($$$) and rust at wheel arches (replacement panels are $40 a piece, but need to DIY ... labor@shop rate would be $$$). It's not too bad, but they do need quite a bit of work. I don't know why people think Hondas are more reliable, I worked in a shop for a while and we always had just as many Toyotas and Hondas as American cars.

OP I love my honda but, I agree that they can be overpriced. If you want a nice 4 door I would go with a saturn(Opel) or an escort like mentioned above.

It seems like your on the right track so keep up the good work. :thumbup:

I have seen a high of 43 mpg in my automatic SL2 w/ HAI being the only modification.

I'm in the market for an SC1 5sp, if we're talking gasoline MPG capabilities, IMO, there is nothing better. (Nothing has more potential, cheaper innitial cost, or cheaper parts... nothing.)

djenyc,

i wish honda made a 4 door civic w/ lean burn. or better yet, an accord w/ a sub 2 liter engine.

but they'd have to take care of that longer throw on the shifter(5 speed).

They do:) All newer vtec's are vtec-e. And if your looking for an older one their called a Civic Ferio. If you like the accord google the new diesel accord. They are amazing.

Chris