2017 Toyota Prius

[trollbait]

NiMH is what the Prius used from the beginning, and premature pack failures were rare even then. Toyota uses Li-ion in the 7 seater Prius v/Alpha to save space.

I trust Toyota to continue managing the batteries for best life.

The different batteries in the new Prius shouldn't have much difference in fuel economies. All else being the same. The usable capacity for both is nearly the same. Lithium batteries have a much wider range of usable state of charge than nickle while still maintaining long life. So that pack is smaller in the Prius.

The use of Li-ion was more about saving weight. We get it in the high efficiency Eco trim, and in the Touring ones to allow more features and gizmos to be equipped.

The Japan only AWD models stick with NiMH for its better low temperature performance.

Toyota invested heavily in the entire supply chain for NiMH. So they have low costs for it. But nickel is still more expensive than lithium, and lithium batteries for cars have been steadily dropping in price. If they haven't gotten cheaper than NiMH by now, they will soon.

[14Corolla]

I would agree that people don't buy the Volt because it's a GM. If anything can by hyped by GM, it will be. Then, when you own it, you find out the truth.
On the other hand. Toyota is always conservative. It will be tried and true. If any info is off. It will be better than stated. If it's looks you want. Toyota has a few hybrids now. You can buy a Camry hybrid now.

[benlovesgoddess]

I have to say, though I always had a respect for the economy of the old Prius, I never liked the shape a great deal, thought it both odd and dowdy at the same time.
The first time I saw the new 2016 Prius was about 45 minutes before buying it, as we entered the dealers.
I have to say - I thought it looked beautiful. Bear in mind, at this stage I would have been happy to buy the outgoing plug in model, if available, regardless of my style concerns.
Here are a list of other cars I think are beautiful, so you can judge me accordingly; Rover 75, Alfa Romeo 156, Chrysler 300C, Maserati Quattroporte , Ford Cortina MK III, Pontiac Bonneville, '60s and '70s Lincoln Continentals, Citroen DS, Citroen XM, Citroen SM, Lamborghini Miura, Honda Preludes, up till about 1990, Honda Insight MK I, Alfa Romeo Mito, Vauxhall Cavalier MK I, Mercedes W123, BMW 3 series (early '90s) - just a few that came to mind.
Toyota did have a lot of hybrid models - the missus even looked at a RAV-4, but it was just 2WD.

[Draigflag]

Toyota actually sell or have sold about 8 hybrid models so far in the UK to date, some more well know than others of course. Despite this, comparing C02 emissions, which is linked directly to economy, they rank 4th after Citroen, Peugeot and Renault due to the French manufacturers highly efficient diesel and petrol engines.

[benlovesgoddess]

Yeah, I think I saw you post that table. Does that table cover just passenger cars, or trucks too? I guess worldwide, Toyota produce more commercial vehicles than the French? I love French diesels, and if the dealer had their ex-demo 208 1.6 to test on the day we popped in, they probably could have closed me on it. I still rate my old 1993 1.9 ZX as my best economy car. My i20 gave me a lifetime average of 64.1. The ZX gave me over 65 mpg doing half pizza delivery, half distance. Sadly, I don't have a lifetime figure for the Citroën, as I mainly ran it on heating oil, only a half dozen brim to brim fills at the pumps to know accurately how great it was - 80 mpg at constant 56 mph, and over 72 mpg when not delivering pizzas. Pure Pizza delivery (surely the most savage urban cycle, I wanted those tips!) still returned a genuine 55 mpg. The i20 often returned that (or less) on eco long distance drives, the heap of junk!
As it is, I don't care about fleet figures as much as I care about the figures of my own car - one Fuelly member with the new Prius has averaged over 90 mpg with the new model over 3 fills...!
Plus, this time I have put comfort and driving pleasure above the quest for highest mpg. I am as much excited about the CVT, 3 screens, HUD, auto dipping main beam (I mean, no way, man!) and people checking out the shape of it than I am about getting that first Fuelly entry for it.
No more rubbing elbows with the wife!

[Draigflag]

I think it was for passenger vehicles, in Europe. Renault were first last year, I'm surprised they dropped to third as they have a big range of EV's but I'm assuming it's Citroen and Peugeots PureTech engines that have pushed emissions down. You got great economy in those old frenchies, I think some of the older ones were better on fuel as they had less emission control equipment which can sometimes hamper economy in modern cars. I think a lot of people would opt for a Prius if they could, but as you can respect, the cost of a Prius V's a smaller diesel, it's pretty much double so more most people looking at a new car, it's an impossible prospect.

[benlovesgoddess]

It is true that I have spent most my adult life driving cars that cost around £500. I justified the i20, because it claimed to do double the MPG of my old Rover, and the monthly finance costs were on a par with the Rovers monthly garage bills...! The plan was to own it for 10 years to recoup the high price of the first 3 years. My current monthly costs for the ownership are around £400 a month (including final payment for the i20). Giving Toyota my worthless Hyundai to settle, and the £2,400 I'd saved for the final payment (I would have owned that i20 outright in 6 months) means I have 3 years of monthly payments for less than £400. True, I then need to have saved up another final £10,000 BUT (and I only just discovered this) - there is an option to refinance the final payment!
6 years of finance to own a £26,000 car, that I can keep for years after the final bill, I can handle that! Or I may trade in for the Prime, and keep that forever.
I gave up all my vices - don't smoke, drink or do drugs, we rarely go out in the evening, no foreign holidays (yet!) - so with the surplus cash this allows, I'd rather pay out for an eco car that I love. Sorry for the life story, but I NEVER thought I could own a new i20, let alone a new Prius.
What I'm saying is, with a little bit of effort, some knowledge of the available finance, even these mythical new cars are within the reach of some dickhead like me!

[Draigflag]

Ben I appreciate you being so open and honest, from that comment alone, I can tell we are pretty similar personality wise and have similar interests. It's nice to converse with like minded people

[benlovesgoddess]

Cheers buddy, I'm touched! Likewise, you always bring a lively and interesting debate to any thread, and I generally agree with you. Just taken loan of a 65 plate Avensis diesel estate while I wait for the Prius, it is very nice! Has awesome better than ScangaugeE live and scrolling average graph (minute by minute). Picked up with, and to be returned with quarter of a tank, so will never know true mpg, but both pretty to look at and enjoyable to drive.

[trollbait]

Toyota, and the Japanese government, invested in hybrids not just for the high fuel efficiency, but also for the low emissions. Some small diesel cars might beat the Prius in fuel economy, but they aren't going to approach it in over all emissions. To get a cleaner car, it has to be without an ICE.