E85 - 85% Ethanol 15% Gasoline

[JanGeo]

The Synlube is a no brainer - the cost is about half the total cost of conventional oil at todays prices of good oil over the life of the engine - who knows what the price of motor oil is going to be in 5 or 10 years. The wear is reduced so everything last many times longer. Then there is less time wasted in changing the oil and disposing of it plus it is made from non-petrolium materials so nothing goes to the oil companies. Finally the fuel savings from the reduced friction more than pays for the Synlube many times over especially at todays gas prices. As far as the Acetone it cost about 25 cents per tank full and I just paid $32.34 for a tank of gas, if it gives me 1% increase it pays for itself.

[popimp]

So what about the fertilizer and pesticide that is needed for the corn? These are oil based. What about the farm vehicles that are used to harvest the crops? And the refining process? As mentioned earler ethanol has to be trucked in. I think it has a negative energy factor when you realize what it takes to get the final product.

[SVOboy]

The most credible numbers I have seen say that ethanol takes less to produce per gallon than gasoline, but I haven't researched it much. It is rather up in the air in my lazy mind.

[ELF]

Ethanol doesn't burn pure and clean there is a downside.
Acetaldehyde is created when ethanol is burned in a gasoline engine. It's from the burning gas hitting the cold cylinder wall. It's a respiratory tract irritant and known carcinogen .

However I think 5-15% ethanol in the gas is much better than MTBE.

[zpiloto]

Originally Posted by ELF

Ethanol doesn't burn pure and clean there is a downside.
Acetaldehyde is created when ethanol is burned in a gasoline engine. It's from the burning gas hitting the cold cylinder wall. It's a respiratory tract irritant and known carcinogen .

However I think 5-15% ethanol in the gas is much better than MTBE.

That's the tough part about trying to figure which way to go. Emissions are reduce on average 20% for NMHC(non methane hydrocarbons), 25% for NOx, 18% CO.

There's a 80% reduction of Benzene, 80% 1.3 butadiene and as you stated a 20% increase in formaldehyde and a 20x increase in acetaldehyde. Of the 4 acetaldehyde is the least carcinogenic.

So is it better to have a pretty healthly reduction on all but the the least troublesome. Or is increase in acetaldehyde so much that the benefits outway the cost? It's never easy.

[ffvben]

from what I learned on e85...
it burns 40-50% cleaner than gas engine
one unit of power to make 1.2 units of e85 so its a little better.
105-110 octane
lots of oxygen content that burns fast so the gas mileage is lower
my ffv truck is made for the high corrosive e85 fuel
17 mpg e85/ 23mpg with 87oct
my ranger has bigger injectors to compensate for the e85
the price per gal. is comparative to 87oct., $2.80-3.15 in may 2007 while e85 2.99 all the time.
15%gas in summer and up to 30% gas blend winter, this helps with the cold starts.
elderbroc aftermarket performance company makes a e85 carburetor for your hot rod if you like high octane.
basically i got tired of running to the only gas station in my state. with e85 fill ups every 2 days, i went back to reg gas.
a bunch of states out west have e85 about .75-1.00 cheaper than reg gas.
www.e85fuel.com was on the pump if you need more info.

[WisJim]

Ethanol is generally governmetn subsidized so that it can compete with gasoline. I think that the state of Wisconsin subsidizes it at 50 cents per gallon, and I don't recall what the feds do.

[popimp]

So what happens when a crop fails?

[atomgonuclear]

Out of all the posts on here........ Brick was the most right out of all of them

If you run E85 in a current engine the chances are it is not optomized with an air/fuel ratio for E85. Regular gasoline is about 14.7 to 1 ratio for a stoichiometric mix (Most complete Burn) and Ethanol is all the way down at about 9:1 Air - Fuel Ratio. This is a big difference in the amount of "Lean" you are going to be getting from the engine. In time, with an improperly tuned car this will deteriorate the life of the engine because of the effects of carbon buildup.(lean does save gas, but it ruins engines) And to the guy that said it uses huge amounts of air..... you are wrong.... it uses less, that is why it is cleaner, generally speaking...burning larger amounts of anything is worse. That is unless its hydrogen powered, but that is another story

Ethanol is 35% Lower than that of regular Petrol per unit of energy. The only time that Ethanol should really even be used is in a high compression engine since it is stable in most engines UP TO about 19:1 compression (High Octane only) vs the classic petrol engine which can MAX out around 12 - 13:1 compression (low-mid grade octane). Seeing as how a high compression engine would be used only in a performace environment....... its probably not the best when it comes to saving gas or the environment.

Now.... this argument could be justified if we were dealing with properly tuned AND ONLY engines with higher compression and/or boost...... this is because the octane would be high enough to keep the engine nice and cool (at idle, cool enough to the touch believe it or not) and the engine would be protected from predetonation (not like typical gasoline). Also, the upside about the CO2 output is that the offset by the plants greatly reduces it.

Its all about our education really, this technology has been around forever but we are so resistance to change, partially because of ignorance and partially because the oil giants just dont want change right now. America is not ready for E85 and I dont see it being ready anytime in the near future unless the cars have a selectable gas mode switch for tuning. Then and only then, with high boost levels and low air temps can the engines actually get efficiency out of E85

Another ALTERNATIVE would be the aftermarket manufacturers that make a product called Water Injection systems which use 50/50 Water and Methanol injection system (windsheild wiper fluid), this keep engines VERY cool and VERY efficient for around 200 bucks and uses it on an AS NEEDED basis (accel conditions)..... its worth looking into if you still want to use regular pump gas, gain a cooler and more efficient ride, thats healthier for the environment. Water is NOTTTTT bad for your engine when it is atomized. Dont be mistaken, you will not hydrolock your engine unless an injector leaks... but that can happen with any fluid, even gas.

And as a last note...... on the next rainy and humid day, when you are driving your car try to see if you can feel a better throttle response. That is the atomized water in the air giving you that couple of extra ponies. (Sort of how the WI system works)

[theholycow]