Run you car with water

[R.I.D.E.]

Originally Posted by Lurch

41 years ago, Then i completely understand you . your not worth arguing with, enjoy whatever you may consider this

The arguments were all from you.

I merely stated facts that you recognize when you make the statement that you don't know how to generate enough HHO to run an engine.

Fact-the 5 states of vehicle operation

Idling-total waste of energy 0 MPG

Acceleration-when done properly and understanding the peak efficiency of your engine its the most efficient method of converting the energy potential of your fuel (regardless of the fuel used).

Constant speed-because of the low throttle position and the resulting high manifold vacuum the effective compression of your engine is much lower than it's mechanical capability. Efficiency is generally in the range of 21% compared to 35% for the same engine when manifold vacuum is eliminated.

Coasting-my Civic gets 5 times the speedometer reading in MPG. Coasting at 50 with my engine idling at .2 GPM the mileage is 250 MPG.

Deceleration-actually produces negative (read below 0 MPG) because you are wasting your inertai by allowing the engine drag to bleed off your stored energy. Braking is another form of deceleration which is even worse than deceleration with engine drag. When I decelerate using engine drag, the computer shuts off the Fuel injectors. It's called DFCO, and no fuel is consumed when DFCO is engaged. It still cost you stored inertai but it is much better than braking which converts the intertial energy to wasted heat.

The EPA along with Ford, Eaton, Parker Hannifin, and other parties has calculated that MPG could be increased by 80% by improvements that address the above mentioned losses.

Hypermilers use stored inertia as well as shutting the engine off to DOUBLE fuel mileage. Check the top percentage statistics in this site to see how some of these drivers beat their EPA ratings by over 100%.

The current record for a standard vehicle is a Honda Insight at 180MPG averaging 36 MPH. Google Wayne gerdes for more information.

The industry is trying as we speak to develop Homogenous Charge Compression Ignition, where a gasoline engine can actually operate on compression ignition, as long as the fuel-air mixture is homogenous (completely emulsified). This is very difficult to obtain becasue it requires pre-mixing of the fuel and air, with the potential for an explosive backfire. Potential MPG improvement of 25%.

I am working with Virginia Tech school of Engineering on an in wheel Infinitely Variable Transmission that addresses the 5 states of vehicle operation.

The system will

Eliminate all idling

Only run the engine to recharge accumulated hydraulic pressure for the in wheel IVT to supply to the vehicle in the precise amount necessary to satisfy driver demand. The accelerator pedal is connected to the in wheel drives. There is no connection to the engine. It only runs at it's highest efficiency to restore accumulator pressure to a predetermined maximum.

Regenerative braking that will recover 82-90% of the energy lost in braking.
This means if you stop you store that energy for reacceleration with no power necessary from the engine whatsoever.

These are recognized and proven improvements in power application in vehicles.

The design is Patent Pending. Va Tech will do engineering analysis, prototype, and CAD this design.

In spite of your opinions I actually wish you success in your HHO experiments. The other side of the coin is I know what the true energy potential of your HHO is, and understand the dynamics of combustion well enough to interest an major Universities Engineering Department.

In the immediate future the potential of the IVT in-wheel drive is to reduce the component count by 25% per vehicle, while providing acceleration at the limit of all 4 tires traction coeffecient with the ground. That right double the mileage and 0-6 times under 5 seconds, even less if you want that kind of acceleration.

This concept of mine has been published in Green Car Congress, as well as Va Tech.it has also been published in the August edition of the journal of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. That's right the ASME has recognized that ther is potential in this design.

There is no Physics to ignore in this design. It represents almost a decade of research into what really causes waste in vehicles.

Maybe at some point in the future, you will be able to actually drive a car with my system and enjoy the benefit.

If you HHO developments actually improve the efficiency of the engine, then the sum of your efforts and mine will be even more than they would be individually, which will benefit every driver on the planet.

Claims of vast improvements in MPG need to be verified by independent testing and observation, by disinterested parties, with no profit incentive.

When you make claims and argue, make demands, and assumptions, you merely serve to destroy the credibility of your position.

It's called "put up or shut up". Don't take it personally, the same litmus test applies to me and anyone else who makes claims without proof.

In the next 9 months Tech will have the answer to the question "How good is it", concerning my design. When it becomes reality (assuming the test results are positive), your car will automatically hypermile itself, with no driver imput other than normal driving style.

Until then enjoy persuing your goals. When you have credible improvement I will gladly enjoy the benefit of your efforts. My problem is all my knowledge and experience is screaming it just won't work. That doesn't mean it is impossible. It simply means my experience leads me to believe it's highly improbable.

regards
gary

[R.I.D.E.]

The EPA has a functioning hydraulic hybrid test mule that averages 80 MPG in a 3800 pound vehicle.

They also have built a SUV that gets something like 40 MPG.

For more information Google

EPA hydraulic hybrids

For a similar system to mine, with the exception of the in-wheel drive configuration try,

Ingo Valentin or
Valentin technologies

Also you can see some efforts by searching the 100 MPG prize contest and looking at some of the designs.

Ferdinand Porsche had a design for an electric car in 1900 that used in wheel electric drive motors.

Most of the competition to my design uses a bent axis variable displacement pump, a design that is 50 years old. Efficiencies have approached 75% with that pump.

My design has 3 distinct advantages over the existing state of the art (a quote from the professor at Tech).

The question is:
Will it break the 82% threshold for success? I am hoping for 90%. That means from wheel to accumulator back to wheel.

Storage will be by accumulator (98%) efficient or flywheel. The drive motors have to achieve 96% for the 90% overall efficiency to be achieved.

Here is the prize, 3.6 billion in wheel drives worldwide at a $10 per drive royalty. A car that can get 80-100 MPG is a realistic possibility. For a SUV that mileage will be considerably less, unless the aerodynamics are improved drastically.

Aero drag is 70% of your energy losses at 65MPH. In my car drafting increases my mileage by almost 10 MPG.

The most efficient engine today is 51%, theoretical designs have approached 60%.

After spending $15,000 and 4 years I found a patent issued in Australia that basically claims the same thing, so my first patent will never be approved.

The second patent, for the in wheel drive has siginificant novelty over the first and should be approved (my opinion of course, probably somewhat biased ).

This is a joke Yukon, please take it that way.

I know how to get 100 MPG in your Yukon, stick it in the Space Shuttle and shoot it into orbit! .

Remember this, there is no free energy, even the sun will eventually burn out, and the moon will come crashing into the earth.

Carnots law states clearly, every conversion of the state of energy involves some loss. This law has not been violated in almost two centuries. You can't get more out of a system than you put in, energy wise.

Notice the efficiency quotes for the accumulator (98%). It doesnt get much better than that. The competitor drive (bent axis pump) is 93% at low speeds but drops to 75% at high speeds. This means better mileage in the city but worse mileage at higher speeds, which kills it as a solution.

My design only needs to reach the speed of the wheels, which works out to 60 MPH at 840 RPM. This is where the efficiency will be a crucial fact.

By next summer the facts will be known, it will either be successful or it will be a failure.

Success means wealth, fame, recognition, etc.

To me the real success will be to see my 87 year old father ride in a car with his kids powertrain, and know the son he raised actually did something that helped to change the world as we know it.

I would trade that for all of the rest.

Relax and enjoy the debate with other like minded people. Learn all the reasons why what we drive today is obsolete. Demand improvements from those who have the power to achieve results.

When John Paul Jones said "I have not yet begun to fight" his worm riddled hulk was sinking from under him. Most sane people would have given up. When he boarded the Serapis and took control, his Bon Homme Richard sank within 2 hours of the capture, in the middle of the ocean.

We as a comminity all believe that we can do better.

Never give up, never surrender.

regards
gary

[GasSavers_Lurch]

I never argued, just defended my ideas when people decided to attack something they know nothing about

[R.I.D.E.]

So lets see you ASSUME someone knows NOTHING about anything.

It's called prejudice son, judgement passed without any knowledge.

Keep displaying your ignorance for all to see.

[GasSavers_Lurch]

i'm not the ignorant one
You are what is known as a bookie. A bookie is someone that cant do research on new things for himself so he bases his knowledge on what he reads based on others peoples finding. Yes i do believe its a good place to begin. but according to people like you the bumble bee is physically incapable of flying. you arent worth an argument you will find any and all outdated and narrow minded so called "fact" to attack anyone you dont agree with. I'm sure Edison ran into a lot of people like you, but thankfully they didnt stop him either

[GasSavers_Lurch]

And no i its not that ASSUME you know nothing about this. you have shown me through your posts that you know very little about this.

[Dalez0r]

Originally Posted by Lurch

And no i its not that ASSUME you know nothing about this. you have shown me through your posts that you know very little about this.

It is you who has shown us through your posts that you know nothing. You still cannot even grasp the simple fact that there physically isn't enough energy in a gallon of HHO to do what you propose.

[R.I.D.E.]

Ladies and gentlemen, lets not discourage those who come here from learning better ways to manage the energy efficiency of their vehicles.

If they choose to enter with a chip on their shoulders, then whittle on the chip, without killing the host.

It seems like some members think they know the holy grail of high efficiency. While they may or may not be right in their beliefs, at least they have dedicated some effort and energy to the cause.

That is far better than the alternative, which is to accept the state of the art as unimprovable and suffer the consequences.

They just need to park the EGOs at the door or they risk having them handed back to themselves on a platter.

Recognize the accomplishments of those who double the EPA ratings of their particular cars. Most of those same cars are fairly inexpensive while still being reliable.

15 MPG is 6,666 gallons per 100K miles. At $4 per gallon that becomes an amount that can easily equal the purchase price of many NEW vehicles. If we all could reduce that to 2000 gallons per 100K then the price of oil worldwide would crash, and we all would benefit, not just economically.

This is not a statement of judgement against those who drive large fuel inefficient vehicles. In many cases they have no other choice in some circumstances, but I would prefer to believe if they look at their situation carefully they can still make a dramatic improvement in their monthly financial position.

regards
gary

[theholycow]

(off-topic)

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

They just need to park the EGOs at the door or they risk having them handed back to themselves on a platter.

I spent at least a whole minute trying to guess what EGO stands for...Exhaust Gas Opening? Then I realized that it was capitalized to stress the word 'ego'...

[GasSavers_Lurch]

lol, it would seem i have the flatterists ganging up on me
but i have shown no ego or attitude. you guys are just getting frustrated because i wont bow down to the fact that YOU cant make it work and see no way to do so. It doesnt mean that one doesnt exsist, it just means that you dont know how, will never know how, and wont ever care to know how. so that brings me back to one of my original questions, why are you in an HHO thread?

so, holy cow. do you actually have a VW rabbit?