Old Insight more green than an Electric Car?

[imzjustplayin]

I was trolling fueleconomy.gov and I stumbled upon an interesting addition to the site that has been there for who knows how long. Now I can't confirm the accuracy of the data and I will be e-mailing them for more information but until then, I'd like people to look this over and ponder the question about how a Fully electric Rav-4 have more Co2 emissions than a Honda Insight! (Old one) I found it amusing to the see the 104mpg combine on the Rav4 but was confused to find out that it actually produces more Co2 than the Insight.

[dieselbenz]

Thats an interesting question seeing how right above the CO2 estimate they say that it only consumes 0.4 barrels of oil vs 6.5 barrels for the Insight. Hmmm.

[theholycow]

Well, if you think about it, the e-Rav4 still needs more energy to drive than the old Insight. Larger, probably weighs twice as much, probably uses a lot more power, and has much more aerodynamic drag.

I'd guess that the EPA figures its oil and CO2 numbers based on coal power plants, which would mean little oil usage (and probably much CO2 production).

[trollbait]

Have or more of electricity generation in the US is coal, so the EPA likely assumed that was the source for the EV Rav4. Any EV charged on coal power will produce more CO2 than a gas counterpart. Now if you make your own through solar or wind, or live in an area that doesn't use coal, then the CO2 will be lower or even zero.

Are they using gasoline equivalents for the RAV4 on that site?

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by trollbait

Have or more of electricity generation in the US is coal, so the EPA likely assumed that was the source for the EV Rav4. Any EV charged on coal power will produce more CO2 than a gas counterpart. Now if you make your own through solar or wind, or live in an area that doesn't use coal, then the CO2 will be lower or even zero.

Are they using gasoline equivalents for the RAV4 on that site?

They HAVE gasoline equivalents for the Rav4 on that site, but to say the numbers are of that vehicle would be wildly incorrect seeing as how I was looking at the old Rav4 first before finding the option to select Rav4 EV.

[dieselbenz]

Originally Posted by trollbait

Any EV charged on coal power will produce more CO2 than a gas counterpart.

no

[theholycow]

I think trollbait was right. It takes X amount of energy to drive the vehicle, whether electric or gasoline powered. If that was all there was to it, then the CO2 would probably be about the same.

However, there is waste. I suspect that the waste involved in transmitting, storing, and then using the electricity is a pretty hefty loss.

[GasSavers_JoeBob]

Fine print from the bottom of the page:

"The carbon footprint measures greenhouse gas emissions expressed in CO2 equivalents. The estimates presented here are "full fuel-cycle estimates" and include the three major greenhouse gases emitted by motor vehicles: carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, and methane. Full fuel-cycle estimates consider all steps in the use of a fuel, from production and refining to distribution and final use. Vehicle manufacture is excluded. (U.S. Department of Energy, GREET Model 1.7, Argonne National Laboratory)"