thermoelectric power, no alternator, for $10000

[larryg]

I've been thinking about this lately. I know this sounds crazy but I think upstream restriction in the intake of a fuel injected car wouldn't affect FE. My thoughts are that the biggest restriction in the system is the throttle body and thats why you have manifold vacuum at all. So What if you put a turbine behind the air filter in front of the TB. certainly you would have to increase the throttle opening somewhat but the computer would inject the correct amount of fuel for the mixture anyway. The engines power out put is a function of cylinder filling which is basically a function of manifold vacuum anyway so- I think you would end up with the same vacuum reading at the same speed. no doubt the absolute power of the engine would be reduced due to the limited airflow but I cant find a reason for it to hurt the FE. the turbine could turn a small alternator. Why won't this work?

[skewbe]

Originally Posted by larryg

... Why won't this work?

You called?

Here's a real rough guesstimate:

I think my old chevy v8 had a 300 cfm carb on it, that's like what a 150 watt fan can produce. My metro has like 1/5 the displacement, so thats the equivent of a 60 watt fan moving air, now take that fan and use it as a turbine and give up another 50% efficiency.

you are left with a 30 watt generator, and that is at max rpm with the throttle wide open. I don't even know if that's enough for the fuel pump.

[skewbe]

Does anyone make efficient LED headlights?

I've been trying to think of a way to obtain a sustainable alternatorless configuration away from the grid and I always come back to dramatically reducing the electrical load. With several starts per trip and DRL's and electronic fuel injection, I'm stuck. Maybe I can pull my alternator and get a 100 amp alternator (or two) that I can rub up against a rear wheel with a lever so I can recharge sufficiently during the few times that I have to mechanically slow down, or something?

[rh77]

Originally Posted by Silveredwings

As seldom as many hypermilers even use their brakes, I fear that battery would never get to charge.

I like the idea though.

I've been doing some free-thinking on the topic as well. With my automatic, I don't have the luxury of bump-starting and rely on the juice available to fire up the ICE (the old battery continues to hold-out with lots of COFISHing, cold weather and a self-implemented daytime headlight policy -- knock on wood).

Perhaps whenever you coast -- meaning not necessarily when the brakes are applied, but whenever you are at complete throttle-lift a charging system would help (and would happen more often than braking for H-Milers).

Skewbe -- I've also heard of a crazy "fifth wheel" that can be deployed on decel (engine on or off) that turns a generator. During engagement, it would probably be like a plane's tire on landing -- complete with a puff of smoke (and would need a rudimentary suspension to handle road undulations), but if an appropriately-weighted flywheel is attached, the spinning momentum could continue to charge the even after the "landing gear" is retracted. The downside: hitting a pothole and losing the whole works. Maybe less dangerous (but still risky) would be your tire-on-tire idea that rides with the suspension movement of the wheel. I'd love to experiment with such an idea.

RH77

[Sludgy]

Originally Posted by larryg

I've been thinking about this lately. I know this sounds crazy but I think upstream restriction in the intake of a fuel injected car wouldn't affect FE. My thoughts are that the biggest restriction in the system is the throttle body and thats why you have manifold vacuum at all. So What if you put a turbine behind the air filter in front of the TB. certainly you would have to increase the throttle opening somewhat but the computer would inject the correct amount of fuel for the mixture anyway. The engines power out put is a function of cylinder filling which is basically a function of manifold vacuum anyway so- I think you would end up with the same vacuum reading at the same speed. no doubt the absolute power of the engine would be reduced due to the limited airflow but I cant find a reason for it to hurt the FE. the turbine could turn a small alternator. Why won't this work?

Larry, you're absolutely correct about using engine vacuum as an energy source. I'm old enough to remember when windshield wipers ran off vacuum. It was a terrible system, actually, since vacuum disappears when you press the throttle. So the wipers stopped when you were accelerating hard!

But using vacuum for generating electricity, it doesn't matter if the alternator stops generating for a few seconds, since the battery still provides juice.

[Silveredwings]

Originally Posted by rh77

Perhaps whenever you coast -- meaning not necessarily when the brakes are applied, but whenever you are at complete throttle-lift a charging system would help (and would happen more often than braking for H-Milers).

That would definately be true for me.

Skewbe -- I've also heard of a crazy "fifth wheel" that can be deployed on decel (engine on or off) that turns a generator. During engagement, it would probably be like a plane's tire on landing -- complete with a puff of smoke (and would need a rudimentary suspension to handle road undulations), but if an appropriately-weighted flywheel is attached, the spinning momentum could continue to charge the even after the "landing gear" is retracted. The downside: hitting a pothole and losing the whole works. Maybe less dangerous (but still risky) would be your tire-on-tire idea that rides with the suspension movement of the wheel. I'd love to experiment with such an idea.

RH77

I think the point is to reclaim otherwise wasted energy whether kenetic or thermal. As with hitting a pothole, I can imagine how suboptimal it would be to have a mere speed bump destroy a $3000 peltier-junction 'alternator' attached to the bottom of the exhaust system. For that reason, thermocouples on cars don't seem to be ready for prime time yet.

[Sludgy]

Thermoelectric generators were put into a pickup truck too:

http://www.nyserda.org/programs/tran..._Generator.pdf

$1500 buck is a lot of money to put into a truck for a 2% efficiency improvement.