Excellent news. :thumbup:

Finally got it to work, after ... 1 borrowed & returned laptop to confirm the tool was working; 3 OS re-installs on my old serial-port equipped laptop; half a dozen freeware/shareware OBD2 software installs & tryouts (they didn't all work); multiple e-mails back and forth with the tool vendor (was quite responsive and helpful)

That sounds a little like an old laptop I recently resurrected. I find few things as infuriating as setting up an MS OS (case in point)...only I didn't end up with such pretty data to show for my strife. :)

OK, now you have my attention, but could you explain (or edumacate me :) ) what fuel trim is?

Oh my. Thankfully (?) I was only re-installing 95 and 98 multiple times. The hardest part was getting the BIOS to give COM1 to the serial port instead of IR - a common problem (I learned, after much head bashing & Google searching) to old Thinkpads.

Fuel trim is the mystery variable behind the EGR fuel savings theory. It's where the 02 sensor data goes: constantly into Short Term to maintain stoich. Short Term, when it maxes out in either direction, informs Long Term and then resets to 0 to start all over again.

More details about fuel trim:
https://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...n&ct=clnk&cd=4

Yeah, I was talking about just going from W98 to W98SE as bad enough. Before that, I did go through the >5 hr nightmare of getting XP to work on a 1GHz machine w/ 1Gb memory (should be enough right?). In the end, I had to abandon my effort because the motherbd wasn't in MS's list of blessed boards. The result was it would run for a while but have random unexplainable memory errors and eventually bluescreen - hourly.

So, I am officially interested in trying to do what you're doing with your laptop. I'll let you know as soon as I get the necessary hardware.

Cool. Have you decided who you're going to buy from?

Well, I do like the ELM series approach and will prob. start with the less expensive 323 for now. I wouldn't mind building it myself but it's just another project.

When the CAN is more widely supported, I may look into something like the 327 if something better doesn't exist by then. It seems generic enough.

Since getting the ELM323 for $41 + shipping on eBay, I've seen it sell for less. If you want to keep costs down and have the patience to wait out a couple of auctions, you might be able to get one for $25-30.

You're a coder too, aren't you ;)

I just bid on that one for $30+. As for coding, yes I am, but what languages or environment/toolset is in use here?

I'm not sure. But I believe the tool from scantool.net (theirs, not the ones they link to) has an option to install source code.

Anyway, this is very interesting. Maybe it'll spur me to get my hands dirty if you start digging around in the bits 'n' bites. I can tell you that nobody has done any useful FE programming (to the level of the SG) for any of the packages. Though they often have a drag-strip function :thumbdown:

FYI, the programs with a datalogging function

I saw that hdw go for $31 plus s&h a few weeks ago.

obd2 :(

Reminds me of the racing days. Everyone I have ever known who had similar setup for racing also had COM port problems.

interesting
Glad you have the tools you need to give us even more info!
congrats

So what else can you log?

So, what's new with this pursuit?

Yes, I've just ordered an ELM323-based interface (obd to rs232). Now I'm looking into tweakable software with source. I don't like installing .exe files from little no-name sites. Of course Sony proved that you can't trust anyone anymore. ;) But I digress.

If I'm able to find something useful, I'll consider contributing to an open source project.

(edit typo)

Not much new to report with the tool.

I decided I'm going to do a VG experiment before I play with EGR. Also, getting the ForkenSwift going is a priority.

On top of that, it's getting colder now, which makes testing more difficult. All that adds up to: I guess I have no real plans to use it before spring.

I hope you'll post back with your experience getting yours operational.

When I have something to post, I will.

I'm not sure which would be more nerdy, developing the ultimate instrumentation to know exactly what your ECU is doing, or to roll your own ECU. There's an endless amount of information there. It's cool but it comes with a stern geek warning. :cool:

I've wondered about that. But then I question whether I can improve FE through a custom computer over the OEM unit, without adversely affecting emissions.

We all know we can lean out our mixture and get better FE, but my unless the cylinder was designed for homogenous charge (a la Honda lean burn), won't you just end up raising NOX too much?

I'm sure you're absolutely right. I suspect that it would take some excellent instrumentation and time (read R&D) to tune a custom ECU to be better than OEM. I think the low hanging fruit would be the ability to make some of the tweeks folks here talk about (maybe a more automated engine-kill/fuel-cutoff). Then there are the tuners who burn new ROMs for OEM units.

"Then there are the tuners who burn new ROMs for OEM units."

Why are my ears burning? :D

I could go on for hours about the ways the ecu de-tunes the power delivery in certain areas to make it feel smoother and more controllable for the masses, but I might start to sound like a ranting conspiracy theorist!

So let's just say that the auto manufacturers might be more concerned with consumer satisfaction than maximizing FE or power at all rpm/throttle openings.

Tuning a DSM costs too much. Go honda!

I wish I knew more about the things that can be done by reprogramming.

You're a bimmer man, you can rechip your car very very easily, time for you to learn.

I don't know that TLA so can you elaborate?

TLA!? Iono what it means, but mehbe you're asking about DSM? It's a term for eclipses and such, diamond star motors I believe.

TLA=Three-Letter-Acronym :)

We already know you're nuts, so fire away!

In your opinion, between 1000 and 3000 RPM where I usually live, think there's room for improvement in my 993cc engine's ECU? (That RPM range probably rules out the engineers' concerns about making it "controllable" :D)

Note I don't want to increase NOX emissions.

I didn't see this before and you're prob right. Where would I start to get edumacated? TIA.

If you wire up a knock sensor to your stereo and play with your timing you can see there is a lot of economy to be had under 3000 rpm on a Metro. The factory tuning is not really tuned for economy at all it seems like. I can actually drive 45mph/5th gear with the timing 20 degrees advanced without knock steady state. My vacuum readings with that much advance are a lot higher than normal so I know it is getting much better mileage. It knocks under load real bad like that though so it isn't drivable other than to experiment.

Sadly the only people that know the timing and fuel maps for a metro ecu want to sell chips and are not interested in letting anyone know the map locations in memory so there is no way for me to tune the stock computer without a lot of effort to decipher the maps. The factory computer is pretty limited anyway so for a metro to get better tuning you need a megasquirt computer and a wideband O2, EGT, and knock sensor. Then you can run lean burn 18:1 ratio all you want :)

Coyote: I can see where this is going... A manual advance lever on the steering wheel, like in the days of the Model T. Everything old is new again.

"We already know you're nuts, so fire away!"

OK you asked for it! This is going to be long, and not everything will apply to all cars. This is just the stuff I'm doing with my ecu. The stock ecu in my car controls just about everything, there are very few mechanical controls. This will be a shotgun approach, I'll list everything in my notes. It's up to each individual to examine their car to see if improvements can be made in each area.

Idle speed control (isc): regulated by a stepper motor, 0 steps is closed, 120 steps is fully open, 30 steps is base/normal.
-ECT based offset when starting to crank, added to base isc depending on ect. This is how high the engine revs when first started.
-Timer that counts down starting-to-crank isc offset, this is how quickly the revs drop to idle after being started.
-Starting to crank fuel enrichment aka choke. How much extra fuel is added when starting the motor.
-Starting to crank countdown timer used to decrease choke enrichment. Has two speeds; enrichment decreases quickly at first, then slower.
-Starting to crank timer threshold between quick and slow timer.
-Target idle speed based on ect. Lower your idle speed, especially when the engine is cold and running most rich.
-Rolling idle speed, isc steps added to base when car is moving. Also based on ECT, higher when cold.
-Threshold where car is considered moving/stopped.
-ISC offsets added to base if A/C is on, power steering pressure is up, and ? somthing else.
-Coasting fuel cutoff, cuts fuel when engine rpm is above threshold and throttle is closed. I lowered the threshold so I can coast longer in gear with the fuel off. A side benefit is that there is very little engine braking available at lower rpms, so I can keep the car in a higher gear and coast longer. Useful when EOC is not appropriate for the conditions.
-Accelleration enrichment fuel adder based on ECT, how quickly the throttle is opened, and a timer used to taper off accel enrich.
-Warmup temperature threshold for determining open loop vs. closed loop (31*C on my car), and warmup2 used for closed loop/cold engine enrichment vs. closed loop/fully warm engine (86*c).
-fuel trim update temp, based on ect. Below this temperature threshold the fuel trims are not updated.
-ECT based fuel enrichment table. Runs richer at colder temps, decreased to standard enrichment as airflow goes up.
-EGR solenoid duty cycle map, based on load and rpm. Adjust EGR use at individual rpm/load points. 56 datapoints.
-EGR solenoid modifyer based on ECT
-Rev limit. Fuel and ignition are cut off above this limit. Could be useful if someone is using weak valve springs?

-Ignition timing map, 192 points based on rpm and load. On my car there are a few areas on the map where timing is decreased in order to smooth the power delivery, such as when the turbo is spooling up. There is another area where timing is decreased to make the car feel more torquey, such as low load at 1000 to 1750 rpm. Standard theory is that timing should go up as rpm goes up, and timing should go down as load increases. But at low load/low rpm it starts with low timing, then timing increases as load increases from load level 1 (lightest load) to level 4 (out of 12 levels). The difference is significant, about 6 degrees less timing at light load vs. load level 4. The stock timing map 'FEELS' nice, power surges as you step on the throttle. I changed the timing in that area so it's flat, no increase or decrease from level 1 through 4, and I found I can back off the throttle much farther once up to speed. In other words, I'm using less throttle to maintain 35mph.

-Ign timing corrections based on ECT. timing is increased below19*F.
-Ign timing corrections based on air temp. The stock map decreases timing at temps above 100*F and below 48*F. I changed it to increase timing between 73* and 19*F, with a max increase of one degree at 48*F. and tapering off above and below that temp. My change was based on the theory that colder air lowers the octane requirement of the fuel. It's also possible that the engineers might have reduced timing in this area so the power would not change with temp since their buyers might complain when the weather warms up that power is lacking. Just a thought.:rolleyes:
-Open loop fuel map. 168 points based on rpm and load. Specifies a target A/F ratio depending on the rpm and load level. Only used during open loop.
-Open/Closed loop thresholds based on rpm/throttle position. Changes the point where open loop is used. I raised the thresholds so I can dip into the throttle at low rpm without going into open loop, and so I can stay in closed loop at higher rpm.
-Open/Closed loop thresholds based on rpm/airflow load. Same as above, try to stay in closed loop longer.
- A/C on/off threshold based on throttle position. WOT shuts off A/C. Lower the threshold so A/C is off during anything greater than light accelleration.
-Closed loop O2 feedback cycling speed. How quickly the O2 sensor cycles up/down.
-O2 feedback stoich trigger. Stock is set to .5 volts. Can be changed in .02V increments, may affect emmissions.
-O2 feedback increase/ decrease values. How much fuel is added/ removed from base fuel calculation in order to get the O2 sensor cycling.
A wide range is used to help find .5v and center the short term trim. Used for the first 4 seconds each time after returning to closed loop.
-O2 feedback increase/decrease values, narrow range used after 4 seconds to increase O2 sensor cycling speed and limit wide excursions from .5v Based on airflow and rpm. Different tables are used depending on Federal or California market.
-O2 feedback timer. Stock is set to 4 seconds, can be changed to reduce the ammount of time spent in wide range cycling. May improve emmissions.
-Dash pot. Timer used to decrease fuel gradually when throttle is closed. Helps smooth the transition between open to closed throttle. Stock timer is .75 seconds, ie fuel stays on for .75 seconds after throttle is closed.

All of the above is adjustable simply by changing a number in the hex code.

OK I think that's it for the stock stuff that could be adjusted to improve FE. There are also changes that can be made to match any modifications to the vehicle, such as different fuel pressure, different size injectors, different or modified airflow sensor. These help keep the car running optimally with other hardware.

I know some of that stuff is cryptic, so ask away.

That's some great info, DRW. Thanks.

Um, yeah ... that's all I was saying :rolleyes: (as if I knew all that stuff :) )

But seriously, drw, where did you learn all that about your car's ecu? Also, what kind of eprom burner hdw can you recommend (I haven't done that kind of stuff since I did 8048 hand assembly :cool: )?

Here's a site that helped me understand the code www.mcumaster.com/hc11/index.html For those interested, click on 'instructions' then any of the letters. This is a great resource for finding out what the opcodes actually do. I also had a lot of help from the DSM-ECU list.

Here's the burner I use, it's the one at the bottom, Burn1/Flash-N-Burn. www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=51 It works with 28 pin eprom chips. His site is worth checking out since he also makes burners, flash devices and dataloggers for GM, Ford, and Honda's too. The nice thing about the program in my ecu is that there is plenty of extra space for added features or tables!

www.pgmfi.org is the honda site. No one has spent the time to learn the bimmer stuff for themselves, they just throw money at it instead...I use a TOP853 as my burner. I like it more than the burn1 because it's cheaper and it only has the one usb wire.

Wow, more great info. The section in mcumaster.com on the 80C51 gave me flashbacks ;) (it's actually the Intel successor to the 8048).

I take it that your ECU is a Motorolla HC11. How do you know this?

You have a lot of insight about what the ECU does with this processor. How did you gain all that knowledge about the actual application for your car's ECU?

Did you dump the ECU PROM and reverse engineer the assembly, get it from the the DSM-ECU list, or both?

Is there a software asembler for writing/editing the code for that processor chip?

Thanks for the info. That's not really my style, so I guess I'll have to either look into it or get a honda project. :D

Can you say where you got it? I see them both for about $85.

I got mine on ebay for around 60 shipped I believe.

Honda's ecus have been cracked to the point where there are program interfaces so that you're not making changes to the binary anymore. With a BMW ecu, if you could figure out the assembly programming you'd be making the changes by hand in a binary file, which is ugly. That's how it started with hondas in 2000 when some random guy looked at his ecu and realized it had a 27c256 eprom. It took him months to figure out the most basic functions of the ecu, I'd never have a chance at it.

Anyway, if you want to do a honda project, you should check out Crome, just to see what the software looks like. www.pgmfi.org is the place to get it.

After a limited search, it seems the bimmer ecus not only have a non socketed EPROM but the memory contents are supposedly encrypted. Figures. I still don't know what hardware I have but that could be why $ is the only known crack. :mad:

Yup, it's based on the Motorolla HC11. Mitsubishi made a few changes to it. I learned it from others who know more than me- the members of the DSM-ECU list.

again, thanks go out to the DSM-ECU list.

There aren't any disassemblers made for this ecu. Since it's loosely based on the Motorolla processor there are a few disassemblers that come close, but Mitsu also used their own in-house op-codes, so those had to be reverse engineered the hard way. I can only take partial credit since there's nearly a complete commented disasm posted on the DSM-ECU list. There are many areas in the disasm that are not completely clear, and that's where it helps to know what the car is doing under various conditions.
It's a synergistic relationship. I know a little bit about code and a whole lot about cars, and they know a whole lot about code. They've figured out most of the big, important parts. I've figured out several small sections, and added a couple extra features to the knowledge database.