Actually for a postie bike I believe they have a centrifugal clutch, which functions similar to the freewheel system in a push bike. Meaning that just backing off the throttle will cause you to idle in neutral, effectively. That would make P&G dead easy - throttle on, throttle off. Most of the so-called underbones have them too, e.g. Honda wave, cub.

The clutch on the postie type bikes will not let it freewheel.

Q

Would you be able to just depress the clutch then, as a substitute for neutral?

If you hold the shift peddle down it will keep the clutch disengaged but you're still turning all the gears etc., which creates a lot of drag.

Q

I love motorcycles more than I do cars but there some things against them.
-Tires: Your average set of sportbike tires will last you 3-5k miles, decent sport touring tires perhaps 8-10k.
-Economy vs. Weight: I will use an old Honda 600rr I had and my Civic for comparison: Mild throttle habits on the 600rr yielded 40mpg, mild throttle in the Civic yields 35-37mpg. Strictly looking at weight to fuel economy, the motorcycle weighs perhaps a 1/6 of what the car does but yields very similar economy. Once again, ONLY looking at weight to economy here.
-Fatigue: Riding a motorcycle will wear you out a lot quicker than driving a car.
-Preparation time: Takes a bit longer to get on at least jacket, boots, helmet and gloves as opposed to getting in a car and driving away. After you have arrived at destination, you still have to carry your gear.

I guess those are just a couple things I could think of. I think motorcycles are great but I think relying on one as primary transportation isn't the best solution. If anything, keep a car for backup. I didn't mention safety; I think anyone who gets on a cycle accepts that risk in doing so. When my mother tells me how dangerous motorcycles are, I remind her that she's broken more bones in cars than I have in motorcycle accidents. Happy riding!

I used one for years in rain, sleet, and snow. Never had a single problem with it, and would ride one again if I could afford it.

Just wanted to add that motorcycles - because of frontal areas - just do not significantly improve MPG. Granted my bike, a Yamaha Royal Star Tour Deluxe, is made for touring and is very heavy, it consistently gets worse mileage than my VW diesel Beetle. On a highway trip last summer to Colorado, Arizona, etc., the bike averaged 41.344 mpg; on the open road like that, the VW would've averaged between 47 and 50. I guess small displacement scooters might has outstanding mpg, but not large road bikes.

Hiway, no. But they can be cleaned up to marevellous effect like Craig Vetters 470mpg jobbie:


https://www.craigvetter.com/images/Hi...ge-formula.jpg

City, they will do much better than the average car. The bike weighs less and therefore wastes less energy when braking (and accelerating).

LOL!

Aren't you comparing apples to oranges?

A Royal Star and your Beetle make about the same HP, the Beetle makes more torque. But on the spectrum, the Beetle is a small economy car, and the Royal Star is a high performance tourer. A large high performance luxury tourer isn't going to get as good of mileage as the Yami.

I know which one would win from 0-60 and 0-100.

I used to ride bikes...rode from 1978 to about 1987. I had several, listed in order: a '66 Honda 90 (about 70-75 mpg, IIRC), a '78 Yamaha XS-400 (about 60 mpg), '72 Triumph 650 (60-70 mpg), '81 Honda GL1100 (naked Goldwing, about 40 mpg but like riding a two-wheeled limo), '78 Honda 750 (about 50mpg), and a couple others in the mix also.

The upside...great fuel economy (especially when my other car was a '65 Plymouth Wagon w/a 383...about 10-12 mpg...got 18 once!). During the gas shortage in '79, I filled the Plymouth once, then siphoned out the gas for my Yamaha. Also, most of the girls I dated then liked the bikes. (A few liked the Plymouth wagon also, but that's a story for another time!)

The downside: Riding in winter, even in Southern California, can get cold! You don't know how warm 32? is until you've been riding for a while and then you stop! Or stopping in a rest stop on the way back to the San Gabriel Valley from 29 Palms, and crouching down by the engine to get warm.

If the engine leaks oil, SOP with the Triumph, you make sure you're not wearing light colored clothes, or anything you want to keep clean.

Riding without eye protection isn't a good idea, either. I tried it riding through the desert, and really tore up my eyes. Rain w/o eye protection isn't much fun, either. Or rain with eye protection, either.

Then there is the rod in my right femur from where I ran the Yamaha into a stopped car on the freeway at 60 mph. Of course, I learned a couple valuable lessons...pay attention to the road, not the cows on the side of the road, and STEER, rather than BRAKE when there is an obstacle. After I started riding again, I trained myself to go around obstacles...saved my butt several times in the car.

Big reason I gave up riding was money (insurance ate up all my gas savings). Now my wife is afraid of me hurting my self on a bike...maybe some day I'll convince her....

Heres a good read:
https://www.craigvetter.com/pages/Mot...reamliner.html

this little comfy looking bike is on my todo list (long term todo list):
https://www.craigvetter.com/images/Mo...treamliner.jpg

Create a national speed limit of 30 mph, and it would be cool!! :)

The case for motorcycles? If you're looking for fuel economy and esp. for low operation costs, FORGET IT.

If you want cheap, get an Escort Wagon 5spd.

Here's why bikes aren't a great value, IMHO: their mileage isn't all that great, they're more expensive to operate than a cheap car, and they' dangerous. One at a time:

MPG: few get much more than 40-45mpg, unless you're looking at sub-600 bikes. Even really efficient bikes - KLR650, 500 twins, big singles - don't get much past mid-fifties. My Escort gets regular mid-30s, over 40 if I try - and has A/C, roof, stereo, HEATER, and room for me to carry my treestand, rifle, boots, AND 120lb 8-pointer (with seats folded down).

TIRES: Bike tires are steep; tires for performance bikes are very steep - 150-200 bucks, every 5K miles if you've a torquey litre bike. Less if you ride it hard. More with harder touring tires. I go around 20K miles on my Escort before spending that much on tires.

Maint items: tunups expensive. Chain expensive at 20K miles (prob good bit less). Cycle oil is expensive, and should be changed often.

The Escort timing belt failed (actually water pump) but no valves dinged (non interference) and it wasn't that hard. replacing the heater core was a *****, though - but IT HAD A HEATER! Now, it is true that a Kawasaki Concours has a heater for you knees and lower legs, but usually you notice it when you don't want it.

I spend 950$ on a 109K Escort wagon which has been a GREAT vehicle, a far better value than a bike. What can you get for that price in bikes? Maybe an old UGM air-cooled four, but all the above will apply if it's a big one. My streetbike list, from 1978 through around 2000:

1976 KZ400
1977 RD400
1979 GS750E
1981 GS850G
1983 GS1100E (most fun, by far)
1983 GS1100G

Lastly, but hugely important - much as I loved to ride, it is dangerous. As I got older, got a little more conscious of that. After 25 years on streetbikes, and many years since crash... I was getting antsy. Had a couple close calls - one with preg wife on back - and just re-thought is. I'm bikeless, now.

I still troll Ebay of a pristine GS650G - but for efficiency and low cost, a cheap, well-chosen car is better. For fun - whoohooo - get a Bandit 1200 or something like that.

Now, if you compare bikes cost to cars with corresponding speed/performance levels... well, cycle start lookin' a whole lot better!

In the real world, bikes faired for optimum FE will get you killed, period.

If you have never ridden and are considering purchasing some sort of motorcycle and modifying it do us all (and your mama) a favor and ride it as-manufactured for about 20,000 miles minimum, rain or shine, summer and winter.

Feel your butt pucker a few times as your stock, unfaired wheels blow out from under you in a good winter crosswind before you consider covering half or more of their relatively aerodynamically-transparent wheels with something solid.

If you're still alive and up for a giggle after that, strap a 4'x8' sheet of plywood to both sides of your bike and repeat the experiment.

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement but there are a lot of well-documented dead guys who've already tried some of the ideas presented here. Do your homework.

original post:Me, and money.
The fuel economy can be better or worse. My present four wheel cages are better than all but a few handful of the gyro balanced vehicles I've owned. The 450 cc and under bikes were barely better on mpg, but weren't comfortable for long trips. The liter plus ones worked well on long (10 hr+) trips but the small fuel tanks mean a lot of stops even at 40+ mpg.
Cold wasn't a problem, but sand and re-freezing run-off were. I'd leave my bikes registered all year and would ride whenever the roads were clear, regardless of air temperature. It was just a matter of dressing accordingly.
The car for which I sold my last 1500 Gold Wing is presently up for sale. I'll use the money for another bike, but whether a small 250 or under street single for commuting, a similarly sized scooter, or another liter (or more) sized tourer, I haven't decided.
but no more RD400's for me. I can handle the GL1500's power and torque, but that Yama-screamer was too much.

my crx is alot more safe than a motorcycle,i'll never drive one. Maybe a dirt bike.

Only thing stopping me is money. I'm going to buy a bike soon.

I just took the safety program in renton/kent, which I highly recommend, and I want a bike now no matter what. There so fun, I don't care about the danger. plus there's LOTS you can do as a ride to be more safe.

All true.

I own a 96 Nissan that only has 82,000 miles on it because I also own an 88 Harley and 2 bicycles. If it weren't for the fact that my HD has been down for over a year, and I took a 4000 mile road trip when I transferred this spring, the truck would have a lot fewer miles on it. The bike has never gone below 41 mpg or above 52 mpg but I hope to improve on that with a new cam, top end rebuild and new rear pulley. I should be able to buy parts to keep that thing running forever based on what you can still buy out of a catalog for Harleys, which will drive the cost per mile way down.

As far as safety goes, no matter what you ride or drive the highways are dangerous. Invest in a MSF course to start with and then after a few years take the Advanced Rider course. It has made me a much safer rider and driver. If I had to buy a bike today, and another Harley was ruled out, I'd go for something like a KLR 650 or DR 650. Simple, reliable single cylinders that get great mileage and can be rebuilt over and over. I've got a friend that commutes on a Honda Rebel (close to 70 mpg) and another on a Suzuki Dr650(mid 60s), both in CA, and they keep laughing at what I am paying for gas and what kind of mileage my truck gets. I use a lot of 4WD here in Michigan because of the snow!