Actually, automakers are controlled by shareholders, e.g. individuals, mutual funds, 401k plans, pension funds, etc. An automaker (or any business) is primarily responsible to the shareholders to maintain or increase the value of the shares, and to pay a dividend. If you have a pension or 401k, Weatherbill, YOU probably have a little slice of GM, Ford and/or Chrysler. AND Exxon. AND Shell. And so on. And I expect that when your 401k drops, you, just like me and probably everyone else on here, get a little nervous. You want it to keep growing. Is that greed?

As far as wanting high demand for oil and gas, that WOULD be a reasonable thing for an oil company to want...that is what they are in the business of selling. On the other hand, many oil companies are branching out into other energy spheres...see https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_101847.html
Again, oil companies, like car companies, are in business to provide a return on investment to their investors.

The year I started driving, 1971, the average car got about 10-12 mpg. My Corvair got about 19mpg. Was it possible to build cars which got better mpg? Certainly. Smaller displacement motors, lighter car bodies and manual transmissions all existed in 1971. The typical European car was like this. I had a friend with a 1969 Austin America which got mileage in the 30s, IIRC. It was also the only car in the neighborhood my Corvair could beat in a race.

If you remember back that far, think back to '71. If you don't, just think back to when you were about 16 or so. What car did you WANT? I'll bet you Donnas to doughnuts it wasn't a Citroen 2CV! (Personally, I was kinda partial to either a '67 Lambo, any V8 'vette, or a '37 Cord 812.) Since an hours work at minimum wage would buy 5 1/2 gallons of gas, more or less, fuel cost wasn't as big an issue as it is today. So, do you blame automakers for building and selling what people WANT? Over the years, technology has allowed us to get a LOT more efficiency from our engines. My Geo would blow the doors off my Corvair, use half as much gas, and run many times the number of miles, while holding up much better! And it's pretty much stone age technology compared to what's around now.

The advances made by the auto industry in the efficiency of their products is pretty damn amazing. Imagine if these SUVs had been made in '71. Probably would have gotten 5-8 mpg, half as much horsepower, and run 75,000 miles before needing a ring/bearing job. Kinda points away from collusion between Detroit and big oil. Plus, if there were this collusion, why would Toyota, Honda, GM and Ford be building hybrids?

BTW, I haven't had idiot box service for two years, where I live you need cable or satellite. Gave up talk radio about the time Limbaugh started spouting.

73 and have fun!

(JoeBob has forgotten SO much chemistry!)

So THAT'S why the smart people were able to wait until the Hindenburg touched ground, then walk off the ship! Always wondered that!

Actually Joe Bob the most highly flammable part of the Hindenberg was the dope they used on the outer fabric covering. Its fairly easy to see that when you look at the movie of the burning fuselage.

regards
gary

Of course, when you see pictures of helium-filled dirigibles that crashed, you just see wreckage, no evidence of fire. However, I can see if the hydrogen were to catch and ignite the dope, then the dope would burn quite nicely.

Mythbusters investigated that... The fabric coating was far more flamable than it should have been, and with it being filled with Hydrogen just made matters worse.

-Jay

Would probably have been cellulose nitrate dope, not exactly flame retardant, it's more in the vicinity of explosive.

hi guys ,can any one tell me ,,if i can put a cat bypass tube in a v6 3.4 toy,,i,m in az and cat theft is a prob,,i,m running a hho gen,no other mods ex.duct tape on grill,thankyou tundrastoy

hydrotech AND HIS HONDA CIVIC
 

Ok, I am curiouse, how much HHO output is your generator doing?

I have a 1996 Honda civic EX 1.6L engine
My system puts out between 3.5 and 4 liters per minute. So basicly 1 gallon per minute.

Anyways, I am curiouse about that, and I am also curiouse are you able to stop the car and then start it back up without the engine blowing up from the left over Hydrogen in the line and in the engine?

Also, what do you have your map sensor dialed onto.

I will be making a website for a chart on what people ahve all this setup as and the old MPG to the new MPG they are getting so others can copy it for that vechile.


Thanks for the infomation, I hope to achive no less the what you have with your honda.

my email is billman2002@gmail.com and that is my msn as well.


Is it ok to just hook it up to the air intake? or elsewhere as well?

Voltage Regulator
 

I have a question.

I do not want to use a PWM. as the amps you can't just set it at 20 AMPS and leave it. As it warms up, it will raise the amps, then you have to turn it down.

Right now I'm using a car charger 12v 20 AMP
However it is huge and really tacky, I have to convert it to 110v and and then hook the HHO unit up to that.

And it is hooked up to the cig lighter lol.


Anyways, I was wondering, what device can I actually use to keep the line so it wont go past 12v 20AMP? And without a PWM cuz I borrow out my car a lot and I know it will get missed up.

Thanks, Will

my email is billman2002@gmail.com

That's enough HHO to boost a semi?

You need to use a relay that is triggered by the RUN position at your ignition switch. I also use a manual switch too.

You control amps used by controlling the amount of electrolyte used. To use no more than 20A hot...get it to run at around 10-12A cold?

Ok, all the personal jabs at me aside, I think I hit a cord with the HHO community on the subject of alternator efficiency.

The computer modifications people are making are where the 20% in gas savings is coming from. Way back in high school, I put a chip on my 1989 GMC Sierra V8 350 that would let me tune to a racing mode. In this mode I could smell the gas coming out the tail pipe. In economy mode, the engine had very little power, but saved me a tremendous amount of gas.

Has anyone done research on the leaning out of the injectors yet?

What would happen if you disconnected the 20AMP alternator load and just ran your vehicle with the fuel leaning mod? :thumbup:

P.S. HHO people: you do realize that Gassavers.org is updated daily in the Google search engine. The posts we are making are influencing the people who search for your products. I hope you get this argument right! :D

Hho
 

You really think that is enough to boost a semi? lol. I'm not going to blow my car up am I when I hook this up for the first time on wednesday? lol.


The reason why I am overloading it with baking soda. Is so it only takes 2 minutes to get to 20AMPS, rather then waiting 30 minutes to 1 hour. for it to get at the full amperage.

I need a more perminate solution for this without a PWM. As the amps aren't controlled.

What device could I use? Thanks.

I want it so the device can never go past 20 AMPS, No matter what.

Sorry I am also curiouse, anyone even know what kind of boost I can expect to see with my system?

10 month old thread.

Any member got a gas log showing any appreciable increase in mileage attributable solely to HHO?

You know "double your mileage, run your car on water".

Why would they be worried about doubling their mileage if their car runs on water?

regards
gary

Billman I really think PWM would be the best way. Use a microcontroller and feedback the output and when draw gets higher than 20amps you just have it decrease duty cycle on the fly to maintain 20amp average.

That totally made my day! aaaaahahahaha

Get fancy and make a PWM that is adjustable to the current you set instead of what you are currently doing:

chemical energy -> thermal energy -> mechanical energy -> 3-phase AC electrical energy -> 12VDC electrical energy -> 120v AC electrical energy -> 12VDC electrical energy -> chemical energy

I would personally build a simple microcontroller based PWM that has an ammeter feedback to the processor that determines more or less based on that input(a trimmer on the circuit could tell the computer what amp rating you are looking for).

If you wanted to use an existing PWM you could do the same microcontroller based system but have the computer output to a digital potentiometer that links to the original PWM, that's more complicated tho and doesn't give you the same precision.

Pwm
 

No, because I still have to miss with the dial then to turn down the amps.

And when one of my friends use it, BOOOM. because they didn't know they needed to pay attention to it or whatever.

have a 20AMP 12v constant current running to it is the best way, but I need to know how to do this.

Thanks though.

And I'm sure everone else would agree it would be nice to just tell it to run at 15AMP and be done, or 20 AMP and be done.

I don't think you totally got what I said. It would be a set it and forget it situation. You dial in the amps you want and leave the trimmer there. Every time the computer starts up it looks at the trimmer and says "the trimmer is at 12,345 ohms, I'm told that from 12,000 to 13,000 ohms is 20 amps" and it starts at say 1% duty cycle and increases that until it reaches the 20 amps(and will fluctuate on either side of this depending on the resolution you've set it to look for so 20.00 amps +-0.01 amps), most microcontrollers sample fast enough and the program is simple enough that you should go from 1% to 100% in less than a second(once it's started up anyways).

For just a minimal amount of extra work you could have the computer sample voltage too and calculate a final wattage value. It'll do 20 amps at 12 volts or 17.14 amps at 14 volts (typical car electrical system) to get you 240 watts. This will slow response time down but you'd be hard pressed to make a simple system like this take more than 2 seconds to go from 0-100% duty cycle.

If you know for a fact what amperage rating you want just program it to always look for that and leave out the adjustment.

You do realize that you can just limit the voltage to your bomb by feeding the HHO with a pair of 24 Guage cooper wires for at least 2". Electrical engineers would call this a "resistor". You will be limiting the amount of current to the device.

Thanks
 

if i was smart enough to understand that pwm setup to the computer I would attempt it lol. But I dont even have a clue. That is why i'm looking for a stupid people directions. So easy even Bill can do it! Kinda setup.



The coper wires prob wouldn't limit the voltage the way I am going to set this up. Sorry. as I am loading it up with baking soda so it can get to 20 AMPS as quick as possible, and hault their.

Well it can run under 20 Amps. So somewhere near their. even 15 i'm fine with.

Another method is to heat your cell to control output. Need to regulate the heat though.

https://flapdoodledinghy.com/HHO_generator.html

A transmission cooler from the junkyard for $5 and a small 12v pump from ebay should be more than enough to keep the water cool. (to ambient anyways)

20 AMP 12v constant power
 

Again, not worried about keeping it cool

I want it to only work at 20 AMP 12v.

How can I make it so the wire will not send anymore then 20 AMPS threw it and that is the max out?

Thanks.

I honestly don't know why you don't want to just run a PWM and set it to where you want it and leave it.

You don't have to get fancy or anything. Get a PWM and a $5 ammeter from harbor freight and tune the pwm to 20 amps during one driving cycle, watch it for a couple more to make sure it's where you want it and then leave it alone.

A 20 amp fuse or circuit breaker will prevent the device from using more than 20 amps. I recommend putting in a 15 amp fuse and adding electrolyte until the fuse blows, then note how much electrolyte is in solution - That's your magic number. Then replace the 15 amp fuse with a 20 or a 25 and you should be pulling just under 20 amps, but if something goes wrong it will cut the current.

-Jay

The extra oxygen in the HHO is going to make the 02 sensor send a signal saying the engine is running lean therefore the ECU will richen the mixture unless you use an EFIE to change the voltage signal to the ECU. Some people claim that using an 02 extender to take the 02 sensor out of the direct flow of the exhaust will cause it to send a signal to the ECU saying the engine is running rich and causing it to lean the mixture, but I tried the 02 extender and didn't receive any benefit. When I removed the 02 extender the 02 sensor was black with soot where the car had been running rich.

I start a full month of data logging everything the ECU does next week and will put HHO on the vehicle shortly thereafter.

Then we can end this debate over what it does to an engine with EFI. I'm betting I don't see anything change except maybe the calculated engine load increase from the heavier alternator load.

I honestly don't know how it's supposed to read leaner and enrichen the mixture. HHO burns to H2O, there is no 'extra' oxygen in there.

Now, I'm not totally discounting it though. At work we see engines richen up because of the better burn but there is so little HHO in the mix that I can't see it having a drastic effect like i see claimed on here. Gonna have to take a poll here before I activate the HHO and start logging.

Leave it and forget it 20Amp 12v
 

I plan on adding a lot of solution as said before.

So that way it reaches the full capacity in like 2 minutes. and dont have to wait like 30 minutes to get to 20 AMPS. and another 30 minutes for the mixture to be going fully.


Also, I borrow my car out to people, I dont need them missing with a nob and blowing something up.

Also, a breaker wont work, because it will just blow and the unit will shut off.

Any other ideas? Thanks people! I appreciate this a lot.

If you make you electrolyte correctly, you should be able to control the amperage just fine. I'm sorry if I'm repeating what someone else might have said, But what I use is distilled water and lye. Yes, it's very caustic, but remember you are dilluting it a lot. I first thought I would never use the stuff, but I had such a problem with my amperage and cell temp running away (not to mention iron oxide), I said wtf and tried it. You can get the stuff at any hardware store for about 3 or 4 bucks in the plumbing section. Made by Roebic. 100% Lye.

Now, I swear by the stuff. Just control your electrolyte to control your amperage (depending on your generator, maybe 1 tblsp per gal of distilled water). My cells run cool with great output and the fluid remains relatively clear. I will be making another vid more in detail (like showing the gas output) as I make things more permanent in my truck. Here's one of my vids.

Hho Amp Control
 

I do agree with you on the way your setting it up.

However, I am going to dump a lot more lye in mine.

That way it will get to the 20 AMPS in like 1 minute. instead of having to wait 1 hour. or 30 minutes. That way it will rach 20 AMPS and stay at 20 AMPS


take a 12v 30AMP or 12v 15AMp or whatever battery charger. Hook it up, dump a bunch of solution into it. YOu will see it will stay right below the top Amperage you set it for.

So, I dont wanna have a battery charger hooked up the whole time. lol.

What can I do to the line to make it so It will act exactly like this? What can i put in the middle of the wire or hook it up too?

I know Many of you use a PWM, however, you have to keep adjusting it. And I dont wanna go that route. So wht is another way I can do this with no PWM

Bill, I really think the only way you're going to achieve what you want is with a self referencing PWM like dk said. That's the only way you can get the full 20amps all the time and compensate for increased heat (and load) in the electrolyte.

Or if you want to try and you know how the increased amperage requirements line up with temp of the solution... You could throw an old car water temps sensor in your cell and based on it's output have it adjust the power to the device.

That is, instead of turning this 'knob' and trimming a pot to adjust for increased temperature, if you use the right thermosistor with the right ramp up, you can hook this inline directly with your knob and at cold it will have some high ohms and as it warms it decreases the ohms just as you do with your knob.

Build One
 

Do you think you can build me one? If so that would be aweosme!

So basicly I would tell it to run at 15 AMPS

or 20 AMPS

And then it would go back down to 20 AMPS as soon as the amps jump up.


Basicly what your doing is building a charger, It makes more energy then it uses I found out. lol.

Thanks, Can't wait to hear if you can do this. I'm just so lost. Arr
And it is driving me nuts, All hooked up and I can't even use the darn thing.

Pwm Auto Control
 

Ok, What about a PWM that will autmaticly control it, so I can set it at 20 AMPS, and it will stay at 20 AMPS, and not overheat.

Thanks. Anyone?

THeir must be some device where you can control the amps and temperature. Or something like that.

Help as i wanna resolve this Asap now. SO I can post my gains.

You can always buy a thermal circuit breaker and attach it to the side of the cell. If the cell gets too hot it will shut off until the temperature falls to an acceptable range.

-Jay

I considered that, however, the breaker will stay turned off too long and no more gas will be made. Thanks though :)


Anyone else got any other ideas?

If their is a PWM that can auto adjust that would be awesome.

I don't know if trying to regulate it by any other means than the concentration of electrolyte in the solution woud be self defeating. A breaker or thermal regulator will shut off the cell from time to time (not desired operation). Any type of thermally activated voltage regulator (reducing voltage as cell heats up) would not be a good idea either. My theory is that as you reduce the voltage available to the cell, its amperage requirements will increase, defeating the purpose of reducing the voltage. Again we're back at keeping an eye on the electrolyte concentration, and put a fuse or breaker in to shut it down in the rare instance that it draws too much.

-Jay

Ccpwm
 

is a CCPWM what I want?

where I set it at 20 AMPS and it wont go past 20 AMPS? Thanks WIll

Ccpwm
 

Curent Controled PWM is what you want

you can set it and forget it.

So, anyone know any cheap ones?

They are very hard to find, found one guy who is willing to make one for me for $200.


I would like to spend under $100 or at least under $200


Thanks,
Will

Deep cycle solar recharge
 

I don't hink everyone is looking at this correctly.
The only way to get true gas savings is to completely remove the system from your cars electrical system and run it from a marine deep cycle battery recharged by a solar panel. This way you are not using your cars alternator to produce the hydrogen. This type of battery will run a hydrogen generator for a long time on just 20 amps and when the car is not in use the solar panel will recharge the battery. This will put to rest all the skeptics who say you can not produce enough hydrogen for the amount of energy you get out of it.
Once the initial cost of the battery and solar panel are payed for by the savings in gasoline you will be getting free energy to produce your hydrogen.

Aquatron