Harbor Freight: Friend or Foe?
 

I have had a problem with approximately 50% of everything I order from Harbor Freight Tools. This, combined with the end of their free shipping on orders over $50 has really cut down on my purchases from them. I just decided not to get a $99 pneumatic floor stapler from them because of past issues with their pneumatic equipment. In fact a pneumatic hose from them failed only a few days ago. I've requested they add user ratings for items on their site, but I seriously doubt they'd ever do so. They've been very good about returns (even paying return postage), but the hassle isn't usually worth it. If I lived close to one of their stores it'd be different, I suppose. Anyway, what percentage of Harbor Freight items have been defective (or just unacceptably low quality) for the rest of you?

Spent a little time remembering my failures with HFT items. Maybe we can spot some trends.

In no particular order:

venturi vacuum generator - internal fittings not sealed properly, fixed it myself
framing nailer - would drive multiple nails at a time - very dangerous!
wire feed welder - trigger failure - always on - really dangerous!
pneumatic hose - 250 psi rated, but failed at 100 psi - removed damaged part...we'll see if it fails again
cordless mini chainsaw - no power, short battery life, returned it
combination mill/drill/lathe - cheaply made
drill chuck for mill/drill/lathe - under moderate torque chuck came off - assume faulty shrink fit as there are no threads or other attachment device
router table - very poorly made
pocket hole jig - holes drilled at wrong angle, sent two replacements, also bad
pneumatic stapler/brad nailer - died shortly after warranty expired (my older one from them is still going strong after much use, but model discontinued)
4x8 trailer - lights & plug poor quality, trailer itself seems acceptable, however
cordless drill - short battery life. Others have reported success with these since so maybe a new model?
spot welder - no timing electronics of any sort, added them myself & works OK
1/2" router - terrible quality, bought for friend as a throw away for one specific job and it was, although it did get the job done
sander - internal electrical connections could not withstand vibration - fixed it myself - so cheap it was hard to be very upset
various very cheaply made hand tools - gifts from an uncle
one of those tubular steel, tarp covered car ports - first moderate winds mutilated it - they took it back at least


I have had success with quite a few things, however. Noticed a general trend where over time I've steadily been ordering fewer and fewer complicated or expensive items. Many fewer failures as a result. More money since college has helped with this decision.

I have only had one tool purchased from them fail.

I have an angle grinder I purchased back in 2005 and used daily for 2 years. Still works fine.

I bought an impact wrench, an air ratchet, and a few measuring tools two years ago. I donated the impact to my shop when I bought my snap-on, but it is still used heavily, daily. The air ratchet, I use almost daily and have had no problems with.

I bought some impact sockets and a venturi pump for air conditioners last year. The venturi pump, has been used twice, but worked excellent. The impact sockets, well i break one every once in a while. Thats to be expected with any brand, if you are hard on them.

The only thing that I had a problem with was a strut spring compressor. I used it and got the job done, but they broke as i was finishing up the last strut. I just returned it.

All in all, I have not had any major problems with them. Just keep that old adage in mind: you get what you pay for.

Makes me think of another one:

It's almost always possible to make something a little cheaper by making it a little worse.

I guess the practical impact is that for important items, you shouldn't go with the lowest priced item, at least without proper research or reviews.

I usually buy small items, not a lot of power tools or big-ticket stuff, from Harbor Freight. I've got a few. Most of what I've bought has worked out great. I've had a couple small failures; the one I can remember at the moment was a butane torch that fell apart. They replaced it.

I'm lucky enough to have a HF store about 25 miles from me. It's not far off the route to my parents' place, and there's other places nearby that I sometimes need to go, like Pep Boys, which is the only place with the oil I buy for the VW. In fact, tomorrow or next weekend I'm going to Pep Boys, I wish I had some extra dough to blow at HF.

depends, our angle grinder is used and abused yet still fine. weve bought countless wrenches, sockets, pliers, etc from them all have lasted.

we have a jack from them that works just fine. we havent really bought big machine stuff from them but all the simple stuff works just fine.

They keep sending me 20% off coupons that are only good at their stores! Some sort of cruel joke, no doubt.

My dad buys stuff from them, but I think their main problem is that they sell cheap Chinese tools. If I need a tool for one job I'll buy from them, but if its a tool that I need to use over & over I'll buy better quality.

-Jay

yup, get what you pay for. the same could be said of big lots.

i buy hammers, hand saws, etc from them, but i'd stay away from drills, power saws and such.

recently bought a rubber mallet(multi-tasker) for 99 cents that serves mostly as a wheel chock. :p

that reminds me, gotta make a trip to big lots, tractor supply, the dollar tree, and home depot tomorrow(all w/in a square mile). oh, and advance auto.

Lately for one job I'll buy the tool from ebay (used), then sell it again when I'm done. Winds up not costing too much and I can get something that's got actual reviews. Not to mention two more points on my ebay rating!

18V Cordless drill - I had a blue one that was junk. I have an orange one that's 5 years old and has remodeled my entire house.

My expensive Craftsman drill was in between the two, but closer to the junk one than the good one.

I've had good success with the simple hand tools - clamps and such.

Paydirt! I need some clamps to make some kitchen cabinets. Thanks!

I love Big Lots! TSC is also fun to go to. The critters don't like me going there though. I don't go often, but when I do I always come back with vaccinations for the dogs & cats. If you know how to do it you can give your dog or cat all their vaccinations for under $10. Sure beats going to the vet and overpaying for the shots and paying for an office visit as well.

-Jay

Nice collection! :)

From Harbor Freight? Cordless stuff is exactly what I would never expect to be decent from there. Mainly, the batteries. I have had cheap cordless drills that were usable but pretty lame, but I never bothered at HF.

Now I've got a couple Black & Decker 24v cordless drills (and a reciprocating saw and a circular saw) that are quite good. The set (except the extra drill and extra batteries) was a birthday gift a few years ago. :D

I have a Milwaukee 18v lithium cordless that's fantastic. I only have to charge it about once every few months. I even drilled about a dozen holes in concrete with it once and didn't need to switch batteries. The thing I love about the lithium is that it runs at full power right up until the battery dies.

-Jay

I wish cordless tool battery packs had a standardized form factor (could differ by voltage, of course). Then you could have third party ones.

There are some vaguely standardized form factors. One form factor of the actual plug part is similar/same across a huge variety of tools, then the main body and clip differs. Harbor Freight sells some replacement batteries that fit a variety of their tools as well as other brands.

I have a Craftsman 3.6v driver with a "VersaPak" battery system that was supposed to be standardized, but I think it never went anywhere.
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-V.../dp/B0000302V8
https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...A280_SH20_.gif
The brochure came with a picture of a drill (probably fictional) that took two or three of them at the same time.

You mean different manufacturers support the one standard? Fantastic! I'll check it out. My cordless drill's down to one good battery pack and it's a brand I bought in Canada (Rona) so I'm not sure how easy getting another one would be.

What about rebuilding your dead battery packs? They've mostly all got the same stuff inside, and even if they don't you can put whatever you want in them. There's professional rebuilders but I'd just try to DIY.

I have thought about that, but never really took the idea seriously. Worth looking into. Know a good source of rechargeable cells other than just dissecting commercial packs? I'll scan my usual places and see what they've got. Good idea.

The only thing I can recall having any problem with was breaking a couple of their impact sockets, but they have a lifetime warranty and they've never given me any problems with replacing them. I have a 1/2" electric impact wrench I've had for about 10 years and still as good as the day I brought it home.

I wish they'd send me some of the 20% off coupons since I have one of their stores about 15 miles away.

AFAIK, the stuff inside most of them is just a bunch of AA batteries soldered together. No need to buy specialized cells when you can use off-the-shelf (or off-the-eBay) rechargable AAs.

Not needing to look pretty definitely makes this easier. Sometimes you can get surplus batteries (occasionally even with tabs soldered to them already). Slightly different form factors than AA, but you're quite right they'll work. Maybe I should go with Ds? :) Gotta do the math to see if it's even worth it.

I've used tools with Versapak batteries. I always thought they were underpowered, and the batteries didn't last long between charges. The batteries would be dead before the spare set was done charging. I have been extremely pleased with the Milwaulkee 18v Lithium drill. As mentioned earlier I can even drill into concrete with it and not kill the battery.

-Jay

I'll have to give lithium's a gander. Maybe I can run my corded drill for a while and save my pennies.

I would not buy a tool that used NiCd battery technology. Lithium is far superior. Like I said earlier, my Milwaulkee is fantasitc and comes with a great warranty of the batteries, its a couple of years if I rememer correctly. It wasn't cheap (I got a fantastic deal and I bought mine for $190) but you have to pay for quality tools. The batteries last so long now that even if they go down to half capacity they would still be better than a new NiCd. I especially like the power curve of the lithiums, the drill runs at full speed until 5 seconds before the battery dies, not like the NiCd that only run at full speed for a few minutes after the battery comes from the charger.

-Jay

What about NiMH?

Cheap corded tools tend to work out much better than cheap cordless tools.

That's a lot better than NiCd, but from my experiences with the lithium battery based tools right now I wouldn't buy any other. My brother in law has a cheap lithium based battery drill that he just loves, and I love mine as well. If you have an opportunity to use one for a day you'll see what I mean.

-Jay

I did a little searching and found a lot of reconditioned lithium battery tools. That makes me pause. I guess I should find out the warranty they're offering before just automatically rejecting the idea. When you have to ask for specific warranty info it does not build confidence.

I notice a lot of people voting for 0-20% on the poll. Either HF's quality has increased, I've been unlucky, or people are buying less risky stuff.

HF is cheap *** **** that you should expect to break/wear out early. I go there for crap when I can't afford a name brand and I'll likely be using that tool only once anyway.

Some of their stuff wont work at all and you should know better than buying it. Small moving parts is a no-no.

I got a pack of impact sockets. Every one of them is cracked. But I got my money's worth out of them!

Same thing with the 3 pack of unibits. One of them chipped and is unusable on that step, the other two are worn. But they lasted 2 years of heavy use when I worked first for Circuit City and then Best Buy as an installer.

I got an aluminum "racing" jack from them and it has worked remarkably well for the past 4-5 years. Same thing can be said for the engine hoist and engine stand, though I haven't used them that much.

"Earthquake" 1/2 inch impact gun outlasted my Craftsman!

It'd be a lot easier if their stuff all sucked consistently!

I finally got fed up with being bombarded with Harbor Freight coupons that were only good in their stores, since I'm about 5 hours from the nearest one. If you go to their unsubscribe page, however, you can cancel just that portion of their emails. Since it's been a long time since they've had any specials I cared about I was going to nix the whole thing, but they also allow you to control the frequency of emails, so I changed it to once a month. FYI.

The poll has a mean satisfaction of 31.54%, but given how pathetically small our sample size is, that's really misleading. Because people's experiences are based on an unknown number of products ordered (and over an unknown period of time when quality could've changed), it's not possible to do a really in depth analysis without making all sorts of hand waving assumptions. But to try and get a feel for how uncertain out data is (and because I already had the spreadsheet set up to do it), I ran the poll results through to analyze them with a 5% confidence interval to generate a cumulative distribution:

https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...b3392b388f.jpg

The column graph attempts to show two cumulative probability distributions, bracketing the likelihood of one choice being 95% likely based on the data.

For example, the chance that a randomly selected person who's had dealings with Harbor Freight will have 80-100% satisfaction could be as low as 2.6% and as high as 27% (with 95% confidence). The chance that they'd have between a 60-100% satisfaction could be as low as 10.4% and as high as 36.1%. Etc. The last column doesn't add a whole lot, because all it says is that the chance of satisfaction being between 0-100% is 100%. No kidding?! :) Anyhow, the hugely sized spreads show that, indeed, our sample size isn't very statistically significant.

I think I've done a lousy job explaining this, but if anybody has an interest in such stuff, I'd be happy to try again. Also, suggestions for easier ways to communicate the results would be greatly appreciated. I made this spreadsheet to interpret Amazon product ratings. Sometimes you can get enough data for things to firm up pretty well.

I can come up with convincing arguments for that last column being all red or all blue. Driving me nuts!

For those of you who want to use the 20% coupons not in a brick & mortar store - if you call up the customer service line they WILL do it for you but you have to whine a lot. I use this to get stuff they don't carry at my local 2 HF stores. For those of you who live farther away, it can be a godsend.

If you break your impact sockets or what have you, if you have saved your receipts they WILL exchange them for you - most have a lifetime warranty, especially hand tools.

Many things you can buy up to a 2 year "no question exchange" warranty on like pneumatic tools. I just bought a 70 lb postal scale - works on a 9v battery - included - or the included power supply. 2 year warranty on it was $10. Just ask for the warranty when you buy it!

But by all means - SAVE YOUR RECEIPTS. You'll find this good at many other retailers.

I use Ryobi One+ 18V tools. Have a chainsaw, pole pruner (sawzall on a stick!), impact driver (cabinet installation), laminate trimmer (mini router, also used for trimming Formica), jigsaw, weed wacker, skilsaw, cordless drill, and more. They also have a lanyard you can use in place of the battery to hold the tools on your storage solution!

I do want the cordless table saw (discontinued).

They are underpowered compared to most corded tools, but finesse use makes them invaluable in my projects.

The "Earthquake" is actually an Ingersall-Rand "Street Legal Thundergun" in a Central Pneumatic housing. A few guys at work have the thunderguns and when the bearings start to wear, they go buy an Earthquake and just swap the internals.

I wonder if their new push on the physical stores has led to a quality increase? I'd imagine return rates are higher when you don't have to ship it back.

I'm gonna buy a hot knife from them tomorrow... Here is to hoping I don't burn the complex to the ground.

Mmmm...hot knife. Maxim jealous! :D

Maybe I can hop one up and make it toast bread as I slice it! haha I need to stop watching stupid movies.

Using tools for food preparation, eh? My best friend and I cooked steaks using these:
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/pho...1099/91033.gif

We melted his gas grill in the process. We also used them to attempt to heat a pizza stone and homemade yard brick oven to 900 degrees (I think we got 700).

https://lh3.ggpht.com/_oNsRR_T1Qx0/R4...1-09%20098.jpg

https://lh3.ggpht.com/_oNsRR_T1Qx0/R4...1-09%20113.jpg

That pizza was really good.