38 MPG Hummer
 

The speaker showed a picture of his 'baby' a Hummer, to make a point about pre-conceptions.
He asked if our first thought was about and ego-maniacal capitalist-pig polluter who didn't care about the environment melting ice-caps and Polar Bears?
He then asked if our attitude would change if we knew that the Hummer ran on Bio-Diesel, had water injection and got the equivalent of 38 MPG?

I have no reason to think that Tom Gentile was funning us; everything he has taught has worked the way it should, but I didn't get a chance to ask him about his truck.

Anybody know of a water injection that actually works?

When they say "equivalent" of whatever mpg, that is a waving a big red flag.

They need to simply say it takes x gallons to go x miles, without all the stupid little games.

WTH are you talking about anyway? I don't see any link or any story.

There is no link. It was a live Optionetics seminar I attended.

It is poor form to approach the speaker during a business event to query about a non-business subject.

Googling Tom Gentile biodiesel hummer turns up nothing.

I didn't try. He teaches option trading strategies, not modifying trucks. He paid someone to do it.

I have heard people talk about bio-diesel equivalent mileage when they make their own as it only costs like 50 cent a gallon or so (it may not be exactly that but much less than a gallon of regular diesel) as long as they use wase vegtable oil to begin with. filter it and chemically alter it to seperate it. I don't know if this is what he was talking about but the actual consumption may not have changed much if this is what he is talking about.

also on the water injection, I have heard that when you increase the boost level on a turbo diesel to really high levels that water injection is used to keep the turbo cool and keeps it from melting. in that aspect, it works very well. I don't own a diesel but I know a guy that has a dodge diesel and uses it. on the dyno he pushed 809hp and 1416ft/lbs. his twin turbo setup gives him 90lbs of boost (not a typo, ninety) he also had to replace his head bolts with studs after blowing the head off of the motor.

water injection works well for power, MPGs? I don't know about that. up until a year and a half ago, I was all about power and torque.

My pappy told me the reason his P-38 had water injection was for emergency power....to outrun bullets.

I'm into the idea strictly for MPG.

Iv been reading claims of super mileage engines since the 70s. I have yet to see one.

Oh- this is that Jonathan Goodwin nonsense!

You'll find plenty if you google that.

Diesel conversions are nice- don't know why they feel compelled to lie about the fe.

You are really looking at a $40,000 conversion that nets 20 mpg.

What a pantload.

The pistons and other exhaust system components as well. The mist of water boils off during combustion, tying up some heat energy. It's been used successfully in boosted gasoline engines as well, most commonly in supercharged engines where wedging an intercooler between the blower and engine can be difficult.

Turbo Buick guys are well known for using alcohol injection when running rediculous boost levels. The injection of alcohol in these applications has a few beneficial results.
The number one benefit, for this application, is that the alcohol increases the octane of the fuel making the fuel less likely to pre-detonate. This allows for running higher boost (essentially, higher compression) without pumping more expensive fuels into the car.
Other benefits include cooling off the engine internals when the alcohol flashes, thus reducing cylinder temperatures. In addition to that, the alcohol acts to subcool the air charge.
Given what I have learned from reading about alcohol injection and seeing some mention of water injection in those discussions, I would go out on a limb and say that it isn't really too useful to improve FE. It can certainly come in handy when the goal is to produce huge power/torque numbers.

You might be able to use it to gain efficiency, but it would be in an engine that you sized so small that you needed heavy boost to accelerate acceptably.

chevy at one time wanted to do that with the cruze. that is probably all on the backburner since they whole possible bankrupcy thing. it was going to have a 1.4liter turbo engine which couldn't get out of it's own way until the boost kicked in. kind of the best of both worlds. you get power if you need it and MPG when you didn't (power is relative too, I am sure that even with boost, it wasn't a speed demon of any sort.)

has anyone heard if GM filed for bankrupcy?

From what I have seen on the news at stores and restaurants, Chrysler is supposed to file theirs today as is GM I believe.

GM filed today, Chrysler is wrapping theirs up I believe...

yes they did file today, and our wonderful govt, in its infinite wisdom will take 60% ownership to "help restructuring."

general motors is now officially government motors! :mad:

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai....ImageFile.jpg

Cafe press has GM bumper stickers...

And now they'll totally screw it up, just like the gov't always screws stuff up. They did not need gov't intervention. All they needed was to file for bankruptcy reorganization so they could drop the expensive union contracts. The US automakers couldn't compete because of the contracts the UAW has forced down the automaker's throats. Why do you think when Foreign automakers build factories here in the states, they don't build them in Detroit? Its always Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, etc. They try to be as far from Detroit and the UAW as possible.

-Jay

I doubt the unions made them focus on SUVs and pickups to the detriment of all else. :rolleyes:

No, that was pure capitolism... Those vehicles were selling the best, and at a good profit margin so they geared up and made more.

Compare the companies that are surviving on their own vs the ones that aren't

CAFE caused the SUV craze, and everyone eventually jumped on the bandwagon - even Honda makes something that's vaguely a pickup truck now.

If domestic manufacturers such as GM hadn't made a plethora of profitable SUVs and trucks, they would have failed sooner. Yes, plenty of people wanted more practical and cost-efficient economy cars, but those people mostly would not buy GM.

Ford is probably in better shape because they won the SUV size competition with the Excursion and were ahead of the curve with pickup truck feature/size/styling development.

Ford is also the only company making a real full size car anymore. I am salivating at the thought of someday having my late grandfather's Mercury Grand Marquis. My uncle is using it (kind of) currently, but once he is done with it I want it. The car only has like 6,000 miles on it. I know from my past experience driving it, and other similar cars he's owned that those cars get incredible mileage on the highway.

-Jay

I thought they discontinued the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis line.
https://www.mercuryvehicles.com/grandmarquis
Cool, I guess not!

This might help: https://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/05/...why-gm-failed/

General Motors (GM) was founded in September of 1908. On June 1, 2009, at 8 a.m. -- almost 101 years later -- it ceased to exist, and control was handed over to turnaround executive Al Koch. Thanks to $19.4 billion in loans and $30.1 billion more in debtor-in-possession financing, a huge amount of effort by the U.S. government and GM's management, unions, dealers, suppliers and bondholders, the effects of that failure will be terrible, but not catastrophic.

The U.S. will own 60 percent of the new GM, which will include Chevy, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. Canada will take 12 percent after lending GM $9.5 billion, the UAW 17.5 percent (as payment for $9.4 billion of its $20 billion in health care obligations) with warrants to buy 2.5 percent more, the bondholders 10 percent to as high as 25 percent through warrants, and old GM common shareholders roughly zero. Twelve to 20 more GM factories will close, 21,000 union workers will be fired, and 2,400 GM dealers will shut down.

To help other companies avoid GM's fate, it's worth exploring the five reasons that GM failed:

1. Bad financial policies. You might be surprised to learn that GM has been bankrupt since 2006 and has avoided a filing for years thanks to the graces of the banks and bondholders. But for years it has used cars as razors to sell consumers a monthly package of razor blades -- in the form of highly profitable car loans.

And the two Harvard MBAs who drove GM to bankruptcy -- Rick Wagoner and Fritz Henderson -- both rose up from GM's finance division, rather than its vehicle design operation. (Read more about GM's bad financial policies here.)

2. Uncompetitive vehicles. Compared to its toughest competitors -- like Toyota Motor Co. (TM) -- GM's cars were poorly designed and built, took too long to manufacture at costs that were too high, and as a result, fewer people bought them, leaving GM with excess production capacity. (Read more about GM's uncompetitive vehicles here.)

3. Ignoring competition. GM has been ignoring competition -- with a brief interruption (Saturn in the 1980s) -- for about 50 years. At its peak, in 1954, GM controlled 54 percent of the North American vehicle market. Last year, that figure had tumbled to 19 percent. Toyota and its peers took over that market share. (Read more about GM ignoring the competition here.)

4. Failure to innovate. Since GM was focused on profiting from finance, it did not really care that much about building better vehicles. GM's management failed to adapt GM to changes in customer needs, upstart competitors, and new technologies. (Read more about GM's failure to innovate here.)

5. Managing in the bubble. GM managers got promoted by toeing the CEO's line and ignoring external changes. What looked stupid from the perspective of customer and competitors was smart for those bucking for promotions. (Read more about GM's managing in the bubble here.)

GM's failure after 101 years is an indictment of American management in general. It highlights the damage to our economy that results when finance becomes the tail that wags the economic dog. And it shows what happens to any company that rests on its laurels and fails to adapt to change.

HC - The full size car line is still active, however Lincoln Town Cars and Ford Crown Victorias are only available to fleet purchasers now. If you as an individual want a new full size car you are now forced to purchase a Grand Marquis. So unless you are a police department, taxi, or limmo service you have almost no chance of getting a new Crown Vic or Town Car.