Purchasing a new fuel efficent car.
 

Hi all, ever since my 01 chevy malibu started getting 200 miles to the tank for unknown reasons, I am now in the market for a very fuel efficent long lasting car. I'm looking at cars from 2001-2008 with a $7500+/- price range. I would like to get over 30mpg highway. From what I have been told, honda is the most reliable and most fuel efficent. I drive over 50 miles a day, the miles add up.

I have been looking at the later Chevy cobalts, because of the nice price tags.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

-Dan

Um... Don't do that?

Seriously though, brands generally hold their value over time because they're still reliable. If you want a reliable car, you'll end up paying for it. Used Cobalts are cheap because they're no longer expected to be reliable... They've passed or are at least nearing the 60k mile life span typical of US automakers' products.

If you want reliable, look at Toyota or Honda. A used Yaris, Corolla, Fit or Civic should all be good bets. If you're looking at Hondas, avoid leather and keep in mind that 100k miles is just broken in.

I personally avoid Toyotas and Hondas, because they're so overpriced both new and used. I was helping a friend shop for a car recently. She had only $2500 to spend. My criteria were the car had to be OBD-II compliant, and have less than 120,000 miles on it.

My friend's $2500 could get her a 12-15 year old Honda or Toyota with 150,000+ miles, an 8-12 year old Hyundai or Kia with 100,000+ miles, or an 8-12 yr old Chevy with 70,000-90,000 miles on it. We found her an 8 yr old salvage title (accident) Chevy with 60,000 miles.

I tend to look for off brand Asian cars for the best combination of price and reliability - Nissans, Mazdas, and Hyundais.

Any OBD-II car you buy is probably going to be far more reliable than any car from the "good ol' days"...since most new cars have 5-7 year notes on them, they need to last long enough to pay them off.

$7500 ought to be enough to find something fairly modern and reliable.

I've looked around at a lot of cars in junkyards...I've seen a number of Toyotas and Hondas with over 400k on the clock...I've also seen Geo Metros with over 300k. Haven't seen any Chevy Cobalts, but most (not all) Chevrolets had less than 200k.

In any event, find something you like, you are comfortable in and, if you are driving over 50 miles per day, has good mileage AND a good radio.

Considering the faster depreciation of American cars, I wouldn't expect them to have as many miles on them when they go to the junkyard. A car goes to the junkyard not because it's beyond repair, but because its repair cost is approaching its replacement cost - why put an expensive repair into a car if you can get the same car in working condition for not much more?

So, if a $500 repair is the last straw, that would be a 500,000 mile old Honda or a 200,000 mile old Chevy.

That depreciation makes American cars a better deal for the low-budget used buyer. In this day and age (certainly since Cobalts have been on the market), Honda and Toyota keep their market value because of perceived reliability, not actual results.

The only gotcha is making sure that the previous owner(s) cared for it the same way they would have cared for a Toyota.

People buy Toyota for that reputation; they're more likely to be the sort of people who follow or exceed the maintenance schedule, and with the depreciation issue they are more motivated to do so. A Chevy is more likely to be bought by somebody who has decided to ignore that reputation and doesn't care and therefore may not have maintained it well.

Do you have some evidence to back up that claim? A quick google search came up with this:
I recently did the timing belt and water pump on my sister's '01 Accord with 130k miles on it. The valve train and inside of the valve cover had a pretty good brown coat on it, so it seemed pretty obvious to me that they hadn't been keeping up with the oil changes. Even the work I was doing on the car was 20k miles overdue. The car has started to burn oil (about a quart every thousand miles or so), yet when I did compression and leak-down tests, they came back with factory-fresh numbers of 210-220 psi and under 3% leakdown. That leads me to believe that Hondas (and probably Toyotas as well) handle maintenance neglect better than their domestic counterparts, and that at least contributes to their greater reliability.

I've never heard of a modern American car burning oil with a mere 130,000 miles. I'm surprised that the Honda was.

Are you suggesting that Honda and Toyota owners are less likely to maintain properly? I guess some might have the attitude "It's a Honda/Toyota, it's indestructible", but more buy it because they think it's the responsible choice and they're responsible people (who would maintain properly).

The cited survey numbers represent minor issues in the first few years of a car's life, not how many miles it gets before catastrophic failure. This thread is about buying used cars, where all those kind of bugs have been worked out already.

However, if you want to look at that sort of thing, you'll see that it's all about the owners. Badge-engineered models vary greatly by their target market once you look at model data (even though they're built the same, the owners treat them differently) - and cars from GM and Ford beat Honda and Toyota in some segments.

Here's a post I made on another forum:
I posted that in April. Looking at ratings now, here's some lists from the first link regarding just brand names. There are dozens of brands represented but I've only posted the top brands here.

Overall rating: Lexus, Porsche, Cadillac, Hyundai, Honda, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet...The only Asian name better than Cadillac is Lexus.

Overall mechanical quality: Lexus, BMW, Buick, Mercedes, Porsche, Toyota, Acura, Audi, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Ford, GMC, Honda...Lexus again, above Buick this time. American names come in between Toyota and Honda.

Powertrain quality, mechanical: Lexus, BMW, Buick, Mercedes, Volvo, Acura, Audi, Cadillac, Chrevolet, Chrysler, Ford, GMC, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jeep, Lincoln, Mercury, MINI, Nissan, Porsche, Saab, Saturn, Scion, Subaru, Toyota...American names beat Honda, and you have to go way down the list to reach Toyota.

Nissan is conspicuously absent from the top positions. Lexus gets the top spot in all those categories; do you think Toyota-branded cars only get rejected Lexus engines/transmissions and that's why their mechanical powertrain quality is so low-ranked? AFAIK they don't have an entirely separate line of engines/transmissions designed by different folks and produced in different factories.

So, is JD Power more or less reliable than Consumer Reports? Personally, I don't buy into either of them. If you want to trust their data, though, the best results you can get are that the whole issue is very muddy, not clearly cut-and-dry like the prevailing reputations are.

Get an 04-07 Malibu Maxx. 24.5 if the wife drives it, can get up to 40+ on the highway when driven correctly. MUCH more fuel efficient than the 01 model.

No, I'm suggesting there is a wide range of maintenance responsibility within each brand's owner population... That there is relatively little correlation between maintenance practices and vehicle brand. There would be a few obvious exceptions in extreme cases, such as classic cars, or high end luxury and super-cars in the $100k+ price range... Ferrari, Lamborghini and such.


But that's what we're talking about here, isn't it? "The first few years" falls within the '01-08 range, does it not?


Yeah, I guess if the owner never drives the thing, it can't fail.


... What? Vary in what respect? How is the target market gauged? What Model data? What goal are you defining to rank these brands?


All those JD Power links are ranking cars by "quality", which is a highly subjective measure.

Hi guys,

I think I have found a good car at a local used car dealership.

2004 Honda civic lx with 152,000 for $6000 in excellent condition...that seems like a reasonable price, but of course i'm posting here to make sure i'm not getting ripped off.

Planning on getting this.

Thanks,

-Dan

not to be rude.... but a 2004 Civic LX with 152K miles is NOT worth $6000 no matter how nice condition of the car. For $6000 you can find the same car with half the mileage.

Are you looking for a 5 speed or auto,.... 2 or 4 door Civic ????

No. Those surveys are usually concerned with the first year or the first three years. 2008 does match that.

If you look at model-specific data in reliability studies such as the ones either of us has posted, you'll see wide variations in reliability data for two models with the same stuff under the hood.

Off topic:

My wife had a 2002 Civic EX (5 speed) and at 175K miles (car looked like if it only had 40K miles) she decided to buy a new 2009 Civic EX. We decided to give the 2002 Civic to my nephew as a high school graduation present since the dealer offered peanuts for the trade in value. Today the 2002 Civic still gets 40+ MPG on the highway and is an extremely reliable car. Only maintenance problems was a cracked exhaust manifold ($85) and I installed a new Denso O2 sensor when the CEL came on. Other than that the car has only had basic maintenance. At 220K miles the car still going very strong, it doesn't even consume more than 1/2 quart of oil every 6K miles on the least expensive dino oil. This car will have no problem going another 200K miles.

Civics are cheap on gas, cheap on tires, low maintenance, parts are dirt cheap and run forever as long as you have proper coolant and oil level. No need for expensive Iridium or Platinum plugs, just use the $1.99 copper NGK V-Power plugs and change every 40K miles.

If you are looking for an economy car, buy a Civic......but don't buy a Civic with high miles cause if you look on Craigslist and take your time you can find a low mile Civic in excellent condition from a private seller that either got tired of their car or just simply needs a bigger car due to a growing family.

If you want to save even more $$$$ then consider a Civic VP (made in 2004 and 2005) which is basically a Civic DX with factory A/C and CD player.... but does not have power windows/mirrors/locks, cruise control or Tachometer such as the Civic LX you were looking at.

As guaranteed as the sun will rise tomorrow morning......

YOU WILL NOT GO WRONG WITH THE PURCHASE OF A HONDA CIVIC.


I hope you guys don't think I am biased towards the Honda Civic :p

kbb.com says that retail price for a 2004 Civic LX Sedan with 152k and average equipment is $7500. I just looked for a 2004 Civic LX in local dealers; they are listed at 9,000 to 10,100 with 61k to 73k miles.

The price is probably about right.

I'm sorry, but thats the dealer's 'dream price' in which someone walks into the dealership and does not haggle on the price.

Well, me I just bought a wonderfull Honda Civic 2007 for only one reason: the reliability of a Honda. For the price I payed it second hand I could also buy a NEW French, Italian, American car. But I've seen them (Italian and French), owned them driven them and I don't wont them anymore.
I own it since September and the Civic drives perfect, has high MPG and I really love it! It's a joy.

Discount car buying is available from many places. I have saved a bunch with both Amway and the Costco programs. Many of the credit cards and insurance companies have savings plans and Clark Howard yells the savings message from the mountain tops.

If you are in a major metropolitan area, consider the Honda Civic GX.
It doesn't use any gasoline at all.
Factor in the cost of it's fuel, in your area, against where gas is expected to go.

So offer him 3 or 4 grand and see what he says...worst that'll happen is he'll say no. But you might wind up paying $4500 or $5k rather than 6...

If it has been driven mostly on freeway, it's probably ok.

When I lived in California and Washington I considered the Honda Civic GX - too far from where I am now unfortunately.

Then PHILL failed...

It's a great idea, and we're sitting on WAY too much surplus natural gas right now

i'll play the devil's advocate here...

why not spend a small portion of your $7500 and get your malibu in good working order? it could very likely meet your 30mpg hwy requirements.

besides, i'd love to hang on to most of $7500!

I have always had luck with used hondas & toyotas (i've had three corollas & an integra) & all of them ran very well. And i sold all of them off while they were still worth something (with 90k-120k mi). I've never had anything except japanese cars, but some of my friends have had mercury's & other cars like that & have had many problems with them. I do not think that that is a coincidence. I'd recommend a Toyota Matrix or corolla or even a yaris. With honda, a 2004 civic or something like that. Best of luck.

I didn't buy the car. I am going to look around a bit more, it seems like Honda doesn't lose their value as fast as other brands, when i see another deal i will post back on this topic.

Last December I paid 10k for a used 02 Honda Insight with 34k miles.

I have averaged 65 MPG, and it now has 52k miles.

It is an automatic (CVT).

I would look at the used Sentras of the current model. You might find a nice one in your price range.

Look at the Cunsumer Reports frequency of repair records for best choices, and compare that with higher depreciation on models other than Honda or Toyota.

I don't think the reliability of Honda and Toyota is nearly as good lately as it used to be. Also look for cars made in Japan, instead of the USA or Canada.

I would not sell your Chevy if the only problem is bad mileage. Might be something like a bad 02 sensor, or another relaitviely simple repair. If so certainly not a reason to dump an otherwise reliable car if it is in good shape.

regards
Gary

Think American cars can't take neglect too? This engine tested perfect and ran great. No smoke or anything. It was found like that going to put a performance intake on.

Before
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...a774f7b9f0.jpg
After
https://www.fuelly.com/attachments/fo...6f91ac062f.jpg