Honda Fit close to 50MPG?
 

I heard that in Europe and Japan they have a different version of the Honda Fit called the Honda Jazz. This version is a 1.3 or 1.4 liter engine and it gets close to 50 miles per gallon. There is also a different version called with a 7 speed CVT automatic transmission. There is also a i-DSI model which uses two spark plugs per cylinder to the engine to burn fuel much more efficiently. This model could easily get 60 miles per gallon on the highway.

Now why can't we have cars like these in the USA??

Here is the link for more information.
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=60

If you want to get angry about it then stand in line. Car manufacturs have long restricted what is available to US buyers. Due the the nature of gas prices, there is a growing list of cars that are available overseas (outside the US) that are NOT available here. Did you know that there is a hatchback version of the Corolla??? and also a version that uses a smaller engine yeilding about 60mpg. Did you know that bragging about getting over 40mpg will prob cause people in Europe to LAUGH at you. Getting 50-60+ mpg is not that big of a deal over there as there are a multitude of cars that reach those benchmarks.
One thing for sure is that George Bush LOVES the American car industry. His big advice a few years ago was to drive less, knowing that would prob not happen which would continue to put more money in his hands and those of his Arabian friends. Its dissappointing to see what car makers can do overseas and not do here. Sometimes its due to stricter American safety regulations but more often than not its pure economics and the greed of United States capitalism and uncaring, corrput and misleading officials.
You can get in line if your angry, frustrated or just dissapointed about the state of America FE in cars today, but dont dare try to cut in front of me on that line. :)

... I think we need to come up with a new variation on Godwin's law.

"Any conversation related to a problem in America will inevitably have someone blame the problem on Bush."

The real problem is the people.

While there is a small, dedicated sect of Americans that would happily buy a small, underpowered car that gets incredible FE, most people prefer the illusion of safety provided by a larger car, and most people prefer powerful cars.

There's a reason the XFi, the VX, and even the Insight were canceled... They didn't sell enough to make it worth it to the companies that made them.

If anything, the problem isn't that the government is in cahoots with the oil companies and wants to make the maximum money by using as much gas as possible, it's that the government was able to coerce the oil companies into selling gas at a far lower price than they could, so that most Americans never really feel enough of a pinch at the pump to make them change to a smaller, weaker, less impressive car.

America has some of the cheapest gas in the world, not counting the oil producing countries.

So Honda, Ford, and all the other car companies could bring over the cars that get 60+ MPG, but the average American would rather have a larger, "safer", more powerful car that gets perhaps only 30+ MPG. Those cars would be snapped up by hypermilers, but there's not enough of us to make a difference to the car companies.

Took the words right out of my mouth Biff!

Well there is some good points made here for both sides. I agree with alot that has been mentioned. And I realize that the VX, the XFi, Insight were all slow selling models but at one point so was the Prius-I. I don't remember it being as big a deal as it is now. Everyone has to remember that gas was well under $2.00/gallon when the Prius was new. Heck when the VX and XFi were new, gas was under a buck. There was no push back then.

Automakers probably won't start offering their euro-counterpart until they decide to build them over here. They will have to remove other cars from their lineup first. They just don't want to lose a profitable line of cars. That's why it will take outside importers like what Penske is doing with the Smart (IIRC). They have nothing to lose and everything to gain out of the deal. I am willing to bet that within a few years there will be more importers offering several mini/microcars.

Nice to hear an unbiased opinion. Everyone is actually right. The American consumer is a HUGE part of the problem. 90lb soccer moms are driving Lincoln Navigators. I have nothing against huge cars that get 15mpg if used properly and for just cause. Dropping kids off to scooll and running errands in an SUV is my definition of irresponsibility. Its one thing if you NEEEEEED a large car for certain tasks and can only afford one car. In that case you have no choice but most people buy large cars for the assumed safety and the prestige. Then they complain about the price of gas.

I would just like to see more options available in the US. The US is a huge financial market for any auto maker and they are greedy. They dont like to sell small cars because they are not as profitable. maybe the high sales of Prius's will help chnage that notion. What also needs to be noted is the lackluster effort in promoting and selling economical cars. GMs lacadasical and misleading approach to the electric car many years ago is a prime example.

Maybe a 'mpg tax' would be a good jumpstart to more economical cars. It would make people more conscious about what they are driving. All the attention that global warming (which we created) may be the best thing that could have happened for the initiative to improve FE on American-sold cars.

I would guess that 90% or more of all pick up trucks and SUV's are severely under-utilized, and this is a massive problem with the USA. Cars are fashion. People will judge you by what you drive. People care too much about appearances. Shallow, to be sure. It's the land of Brittney Spears, Hip Hop, Girls Gone Wild videos, and other morally bankrupt notions. A sign of the times. The social fabric of the USA is plunging down, and our once strong moral fiber is tattered, to be sure.

I could easily sell my Yaris and buy any car cash up to $100,000 in value, but I don't, as I care a tad about the environment, saving money, and frankly, I don't care what my neighbors think of me, nor care if I am judged as an "underachiever" simply because I drive a $13,000 car.

It's about feeling secure with one's self, not caring what others think. It's about being happy and doing the right thing.

As to why the small high MPG cars are not sold here, don't blame Bush....you give the idiot too much credit and power....blame the American People...thy're the true idiots, most of them anyways....this coming from an American ;-)

As to global warming, I'm not a believer that we humans caused it. Sure, it is happening, and sure we contribute to it, but even if all gas powered cars never existed, global warming would still be in our midst. Still, we need to get off oil, and find cleaner, safe, and cheap ways to transport ourselves around.

There is indeed a 24 km/l (Advertised) jazz in japan, but one thing I learned during my time there is that honda and toyota's japanese and US auto offerings are so COMPLETELY different. It's not like models just carry over and are the same, honda motor co and honda of north america run the show completely differently. The same can be said for toyota and all the others, but they have a bit more of the same types of cars (toyota is the major seller of huge SUVs in japan and they are all the same as the us models, whereas honda doesn't sell anything bigger than the cr-v in japan).

So, yes, it sucks, but in the automotive business it doesn't seem as simple as just importing a drivetrain. Each region-specific head office has to worrying about production facilities and sales space and advertising and overall feasability. *shrug*

If I could pick one car to have imported it'd be the Honda Life.

I have to agree with you 100% there. Some might even say that you are severely under-emphasizing the use of the word severely and that it should be in CAPS :)

Have to respectfully disagree with you there. The recent change i nglobal warming severely deviates from the normal deviations and anomalies for thew past thousands of years. This does not seem like Earths natural movement

Hey, may car isn't underpowered... It gets where I need it to go :p

But that being said - a larger (as read: heavier) will always have an edge on safety. Mass wins in a collision - the more mass you have, the less energy you're required to absorb.

here's an interesting "case study". But even so, 60% is a big number and that's a very localized "study" (only counting "stuff" not tonnage) :p But he makes a very good point - empty bed space is just as bad as empty car space. I have 5 seats, and I do my best to have at least 3 filled when I go somewhere (okay, sometimes I need to drive to pick people up, but I still count that better than 3 cars with 1 person each).

Really, do so many people "need" a truck to avoid a once yearly $30 delivery charge?

Other way around, we have a different version of the Jazz, called the [un]Fit.

I think something like that was proposed in CA. But it's a tax that has 0 net impact on %tage of tax collected. It was a tax-credit system. Heavy consumers would basically pay those that have cars with better FE. It's a good idea, but it really needs exceptions to be closer to viable in my opinion.

Round 2..... FIGHT!

I completely agree... I, for one, loathe the current administration (really, it's not just one guy, although technically his crew filled most of the positions) - but he is not the reason he is in office. We are the reason he is in office (even if you didn't vote for him - even if you didn't vote).

It doesn't hurt that people (citizens) complained too. We, as a whole, asked for it - and got exactly what we asked for... A bandage covering an infected injury. Looks pretty, just as long as you leave it covered :thumbdown:


I can't wait for SMART to finish setting up shop... And I REALLY hope they make a killing on sales. Perhaps that's the kind of motivation needed to get FE higher on the priority list for N. American car production. Really, attack their bottom line - and change will come fast :thumbup:

Well maybe the main reason why Americans want more powerful cars is because they are overweight. If you compare to Europe and Japan what is the average weight of each person overseas compared to the US?

If you brought the FE cars from overseas to the US, Americans would not buy them because they are under powered. Not even safety features, etc. etc..

Just the other day I saw 5 SUVs in a row and you know what? If you pay attention notice how 95% of the time it's only the driver and sometimes a passenger. They are not hauling anything big. I mean, safety should be a concern but only to a certain extent. Driving is a risk we all must take in general. I think if we Americans want to save gas it's not to drive less but to drive more FE cars like what they have in Europe.

One thing I noticed with my time in Japan is that not only are cars more suited to their use, but work trucks, trucks used by companies and such, are usually very small, mini-trucks that're just packed very efficiently. Very infrequently did I see a truck the size of an F150 or some other "smaller" pickup, and when I did they were often hauling cement mixers or something else very matching the truck's size.

In the US our priorities are just mixed up.

When automakers say that there is no demand for fuel efficient cars, they really mean that there is no demand from our politicians.

Politicians HATE fuel efficient cars because it takes gas tax money out of the state's coffers.

So, they would have to raise taxes somewhere else, which would get them voted out of office.

It's not a conspiracy, but it's close.

Tell that to a mother with a new driver :D That does seem to be part of the core issue. When I was looking for my first car, my parent's wouldn't even let me consider anything but an automatic transmission. My mom, not knowing how to drive a stick shift (like most of America), had this thought that driving a stick shift was more distracting o.0 It didn't help that when we taught my sister to drive a standard shift, she was laughing too much (after stalling at least 4 times) that she made a 55hp diesel chip it's wheels very close to another car going full speed (circa 45).

To be frank, I really don't mind having certain features like side airbags and ABS. Really, ABS has saved my butt once - so the extra cost of hauling around a hydraulic pump and some extra lines, much cheaper than the ambulance ride to the hospital for me and my other half :thumbup:

My gripe is weight -- when automakers quantify weight as a safety feature. They didn't make it heavy to make it safe - it's heavy because it's big. Hell, an engineering goal is to make the frames as light as possible - that's why you'll find stamped steel chassis members!

But it's America... Bigger = Better. More = Better. Living in a house, not on a farm, 15 miles from the grocery store... Throw in a white picket fence and we've found "the American dream." (no offense if you live in such a place)

Sorry to be kind of ranty in this thread... I think most of us can agree that the changes that have happened elsewhere haven't really even started in N. America (moreso in the States - Canada seems to be a bit ahead).

America,
Home of the supersized value meal :rolleyes:

Not trying to start up here, but I wish it were just a matter of public opinion, we could wish away any "problems".

Small cars are a small segment of the US auto market
 

I work in the US automotive industry in the quickly vanishing Motor City.

It's obvious that most of those who post would like a car with 60+ mpg but there aren't that many of those kind of car buyers are out there - really! Is easy to blame the manufacturers, the government or the buying public but the simple facts are:

1) Gas is cheap. $3.00 is still below the inflation adjusted price of the early 80's. I know - I was buying gas at that time for my '79 Chevette and I was a college student back then. Do you know what college students make? I thought so. Minimum wage or less! I have been employed for over 20 years and now make enough to afford $1000 a month in gas if I had to.

2) Gas is readily available. I have not had to wait in long lines for gas, have you? There's enough for everybody! Whoo Hoo! At least for now.

3) Global warming is a theory. No one knows for sure that humans are a contributing factor or not. Scientists are not infallible - remember the ether that some scientist were certain filled outer space. Remember that planes heavier than air could never fly according to some of them.

4) American's have been getting weathier over the past 30 years and do not feel guilty in enjoying some of that wealth. When I was growing up, my family of six had one car for a long time. Now, my family of three has three cars and only two drivers. Why? Because we can afford it.

5) The US has a vast land area - Japan? Western European nations? Hell those are US state sized! We have long distances to travel, we lack adequate public land transportation and we need vehicles that are quiet, safe and confortable to drive long distances in. I enjoy driving my Buick Lesabre when I have to travel more than 10 hours straight - quiet and comfortable. I love my Civic but I don't like traveling in it more than 5 hours straight. Too much wind noise, have to go too slow (65 mph) to get good mpg (at 75 mph I only get about 42 mpg with the Civic) and I get almost 30 mpg with the Buick at 75 mph.

6) The choice of vehicles is unbelievable - 300 models to choose from. Remember the Model T? Back then you had a choice of how many models -5?, 10? It's a big deal for any individual model to sell 400,000 units now. Only large GM and Ford trucks and the Toyota Camry are in this league. Nearly 16 million new cars and trucks were sold last year. You do the math.

Amen Jadziasman!

EXACTLY what I was meaning. The problem isn't some big government conspiracy, but just public desire.

Well, I guess 2008 will test the "we don't want it" theory when smart sets up shop. That is, if Prius sales and satisfaction wasn't enough (but the Prius has aesthetics on it's side v. other hybrids) :p

Biffmeistro -

I 99% agree. I still think this is a very small forum that doesn't represent mainstream values when it comes to cars. We are the 1%-ers in relative terms (if even that). If we are lucky, I think that the best we can hope for in the short term is that Americans begin to limit their largest car to the venerable family sedan.

CarloSW2

I think this point here contradicts what you're saying about needing lots of people wanting the cars. If only one or two in 300 cars were a VW polo or Honda Life, they wouldn't need huge sales to still be competitive.

SVOboy -

Japan has been resource constrained throughout the industrial age while the USA has always had tons of resources to exploit. In Europe I know that the "old medieval" cities have narrow meandering streets that do not lend themselves to big cars. In Japan I would think that the issue would be similar. After WWII, Germany had all those tiny Messerschmitt bubble cars to get people moving until they could rebuild, but for Japan it makes sense for that niche of car to stay (the Kei-Car legislation giving them a boost too).

CarloSW2

Well, honestly, Japan didn't really get cars until the 60s and 70s, so it's something the developed a bit more down the road. Most urban settings cars just aren't necessary at all, so I think when people "splurge" on the drive they are just a lot more stingy about it.