Which Oil to Use?
 

Here's a good article that explains which oil weight to use and what the various oil weight numbers mean. It was written by a knowledgeable enthusiast. It doesn't go into much detail about which brands to use since apparently there's more of a difference between oil weights, synthetic vs. mineral oil, and new ratings vs. old. It's long and full of good info.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...tor_oil_basics
There's a couple of nice tables at the bottom of the article, so if you're in a hurry scroll down.

I've read Dr Haas' work over at the BITOG forums. I have found his information understandable and helpful.

I was once a member of the ThickerIsBetter crowd, then was a member of the ThinnerIsBetter crowd. Now I kind of split the difference on the thin side and belong to the CheapSkate crew.

BITOG sure taught me a lot about oils. I'll never be the same...

it seems, scanning thru very briefly, that Dr. Haas supports the opinion that synthetics are better.

if he were a mechanic, as well as a "chemical expert", perhaps his study/ideas would be more respected.

i kinda go by experience in this and other matters. and my observation is that synthetics are clearly superior.

those things said, i've heard more than a few mechanics/chemical experts/researchers recommend synthetics.

sort of a triple crown IMHO: my experience, an expert opinion(both hands on and chemical analysis), and research to back it up.

BITOG= Bob Is The Oil Guy
bobistheoilguy.com

That was way too much reading just to find out I was using the right oil; that's no help.

Best bang for buck IMO = Supertech/Tech2000 Walmart brand 0W30 synthetic, for tight engines, extended change interval possible. For leaky/smoky engines try Pennzoil or Castrol High Mileage 5W30, for motors known for sludging, or suspected to be very dirty, valvoline maxlife, for a fill or two then switch to synth if tight or the other two if leaky/smoky.

Find the article that goes on about the additives in the oil. Mobil 1 fully synthetic came out right near the top. Amsoil was number one.

Never use synthetic blend. When you heat it up, the synthetic oil floats on top of the organic. Unfortunately the oil pickup is at the bottom of the pan, so only the organic gets circulated. It's a waste of money.

Organic molecules vary in size. With synthetic they're all one uniform size.

Other than that, oil is oil. It all comes down to the additives each individual company puts in it. Same goes for gasoline. Except with gas you have the cheap stations that mix whatever surplus gas the other companies give them.

About 2 years ago I did my first oil change in my new xB after 3700 miles of break in. Drained the old oil out over night changed the filter and then poured 4 quarts of Synlube 5W50 and only added about 2 cups after 10,000 miles to bring it up to the full mark where is still is today at 20,568 miles. I know you guys are into changing oil all the time and not too many of you think this stuff can keep working but so far it is running great and giving great mileage - current tank average 43.6 mpg.

I agree, with synthetic oil and modern engines designed to go a long way on synthetic oil, it's silly to change oil every 3,000. VW says my first oil change should be at 5,000 miles, then 10,000, then every 10,000 after that...and that's exactly what I'll do.

That sounds ok - my 80 Rabbit would go 7-8k miles between oil changes and the oil would get pretty beat by then - castrol was used all the time and it lasted 163k miles before the car rusted away - engine was still running great!

Of course with the Synlube you FORGETABOUTOILCHANGES - and it is the weirdest thing to NOT be changing the oil all the time.

It's not the oil that wears out. Oil can be recycled. It's the additives in the oil that need to be replenished. But the most critical reason you need to change your oil regularly is to remove contaminants. Your oil system builds up a resevoir of metal shavings, moisture, gunk, and other neat stuff. Cycling this through oil passages, your valve train, between the cam lobes and the rocker arms, your crank case, and on the sides of your combustions chambers to be constantly wiped off by the piston rings is going to wear your engine. Is it going to blow up? No. Are there any indications immediately perceivable to the owner? No. But whoever owns your car after you is going to get low and uneven compression and trouble passing smog because of excessive blowby. This is what a mechanics diagnosis will turn up when they start to wonder why their power and gas mileage isn't what it should be.

By not changing your oil you are artificially multiplying the odometer.

Find an oil analysis company, order a kit, and send them a sample. They'll tell you the exact condition of your oil and thus your engine. They can give you a recommended oil change interval. And it's not expensive at all. Cost is less than $40. Most people running modern engines in average conditions running a decent quality synthetic oil and a good filter find that their oil change interval is right around 5000-8000 miles.

Ha ha ha no it doesn't happen this way with the Synlube because the gunk is formed from the Dino oil breaking down - the filter is a 5 micron full flow and it gets changed next year and the blowby has been reduced by the Synlube forming a better piston ring seal than conventional oil. Friction is reduced by the coating of the metal surfaces with coloidal particles of Moly, PTFE and Graphite as well as the moisture content is reduced from teh reduced blowby as the little that does get there is absorbed by the graphite until it is heated enough during engine operation to release as steam to vent back into the intake through the PCV valve. If water buildup was a problem the oil level would increase. The oil can't easily be analyzed since the Synlube contains particles of solid lubricants and Iron compounds to neutralize acids which would give false wear and contamination readings.

No one ever gets my cars after I get through with them except the junk yard . . . I run them until they are scrap.

Not true. Synth blends don't seperate out. You are correct, though, that synth has a more uniform molecular design. But it's not like oil and water. It's oil and oil. They don't repel each other.

The blowby is reduced b/c you're running a 50 weight oil....

what?
 

This is COMPLETE BS! Where on earth did you get that information? I would suggest you spend some time at www.BobIsTheOilGuy.com and educate yourself ;-)

Auto Zone had a deal today of 5qt of 0W20 Mobile 1 Fully Synthetic + Mobile 1 filter, $26 + tax out the door.

And thus my foray into 0W synthetics begins! :)

Not all synthetics oils are true synthetic oils, one type is made from crude oil and is hydro cracked, the other is Ester based, or vegetable based and is much more expensive but performs better at the extreme end.

There was a big legal court case in the 70's regarding the use of the term Synthetic oil, the bad guys won.

:rolleyes: Here we go again.....

post deleted - reason: "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say anything at all"

What? What did I miss? Was it some sort of worldwide conspiracy theory involving Amelia Aerhart, JFK and aliens? :)

No...I just saw no need to escalate these all too common arguments here. There are other forums for that.(cough...bitog...cough)

We had no sythetic oil in the military (Coast Guard) in the '70s, but as an Engineman in school we were taught that oil doesn't break down: it becomes contaminated and diluted, hence we used viscosimeters to measure the fuel oil (diesel) dilution of our oil (usually 2000 gallons worth) and ran it through centrifugal purifiers instead of filters. Talk about an oil change.
It would seem to me that despite superior lubricating qualities of syn, it can still be contaminated eventually, and metal dust running through my engine gives me the queasies.

Which is why FILTRATION is so important (and why I use some of the best filters on the market in my cars). The difference (in both filtering capacity, and size of particles filtered out) between the cheapest and the best oil filters on the market is HUGE (both in total filtering capacity, and in their ability to get much smaller particles removed). Yes, good filters cost more, but IMHO they also pay that back in extra "life" out of your oil.

And for even better filtering than that, you can:

1) Add a few "rare earth" (small, very powerful) magnets to the outside of your oil filters. Small (ferrous) metal shavings in the oil stream will be attracted to the magnets (no matter what size those metals are), instead of trying to push through the filter itself. Granted, non-ferrous metals, and other junk, will still have to be caught by the filter itself, but at least any ferrous metals are taken care of by the magnets (meaning that the filter itself has a little less work to do). This is a cheap "upgrade" for just about any oil filter. And you can even reuse the same magnets filter after filter.

2) Consider getting a "bypass filter" system. A bypass filter is a separately plumbed in oil path, that is DIFFERENT from the normal oil path through the engine (you still need the "full flow" filter for the engine). With a bypass system, the 2nd oil path is very slow, BUT very fine (often 2 micron filtration, or less). This means that while your engine is working, your "bypass filter" is also slowly/constantly micro-filtering a bit of your oil. Over time, this keeps your oil VERY CLEAN (as long as you make sure to change your bypass filters, when they fill up with junk). The main down-side of bypass systems, is that they are a minor PITA to install initially (as they require additional oil plumbing).

You can get extremely strong magnets from inside a hard drive, even an ancient one found in a discarded computer from the 1980s. Their field is so strong you have to be careful not to get hurt playing with two of them, but the field drops off sharply at a short distance, so they might not work so well in this application, I'm not sure.

The word, BTW, is ferrous, not ferris.

I think it's a good idea. I've heard of gluing them on the inside of the oil pan too; there they might get some bits that for some reason don't make it to the filter. I've also heard of using them in the transmission pan.

It's just more noticable on stronger magnets, they all have the same inverse square law field strength relationship.

I've got a floppy drive magnet stuck to my differential cover, due to causing carnage in there last fall and wanting to make sure I caught any last stray filings. My tranny pan already has one in, stock.

Sounds about right. I was vaguely remembering what I read about it, though I remember that it said the field drop-off had more to do with the type and shape/size of the magnet than its strength; hard drive magnets are neodymium and are flat and very thin...

HDD use Neodymium magnets, yes they have a high BT but as RW said its all very short range unless you had a yoke or bar to help focus the magnetic field.

I think the best place for magnetic ring is around the oil filter, its a small space that oil has to pass through, so it should be in the magnetic field plus the filter is steel so it helps grab the metal particals in the oil.

Magnets and oil filtration.
 

Yep, those are the type of magnets I'm talking about. However, tearing a disk drive apart is only one place to get them. They can also be easily mail-ordered (in just about any size/shape you want) from any number of magnet makers, often for very reasonable prices (sometimes for only a few pennies each, if you pick up a small batch of them at the same time). And I've even seen them available directly in retail stores, often sold as part of science type toys (but in a few cases, just packaged by themselves in the store).

The important thing is to make sure that whatever magnets you pick, they are strong enough to actually make a real difference (when put next to the oil, like say on the outside of the oil filter itself). Which is why I consider this "upgrade" pretty worthless UNLESS "Rare Earth"/"Neodymium" Magnets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_magnet , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet ) are used. Simply put, the field strength of even reasonably small rare earth magnets is enough to make a real difference (assuming the magnets are in close proximity to the oil), but the field strength of lessor magnets isn't likely to be enough to bother with (unless you make the lessor magnet much bigger than you likely would want to).

Thankfully, quality rare earth magnets are not that expensive, if you hunt around. And, as you have already pointed out, you can even get such magnets "for free" if you take the trouble to disassemble an old/broken hard disk drive.

And remember, the real nice thing about using rare earth magnets as an oil filtering "upgrade" (of sorts), is that it's a small one time cost (even assuming you don't get the magnets for free from disassembling old/broken hard disks), that should keep providing minor benefits for then entire life of your car. Because when you do change your oil filter, you can easily just move those same magnets onto the next filter (and the one after that, and...).

NOTE: One minor caution with this "upgrade". Be careful to not have the magnets touch bare metal, as that could cause extra corrosion. i.e. if you are going to put the magnets on the outside of your oil filter (an easy/logical place to put them), be sure you put it on a "painted" surface of the filter, and be sure that you don't scratch/remove the paint when adding the magnets. This should be pretty easy to do, but it is something to be at least a little careful about.

Aw, crap, I just remembered...my VW doesn't use a normal oil filter, it has a plastic housing with a replacable element. The magnet will not work there!

Been using this oil filter magnet for a couple of months:

https://www.filtermag.com/tech.php

Modern oil filters remove particles by forcing the oil through paper-based media with very small ports. The technology behind this filtering media is a compromise that has remained relatively unchanged since the 1930s. While oil is necessary to remove these damaging particles, it is equally important that it flows back into the engine fast enough to lubricate all the moving parts.

A perfect oil filter media would stop all the particles down to 1-micron (about 1/70th the thickness of a human hair). Unfortunately, a filter with ports that small would also restrict the oil from returning to the engine fast enough, resulting in catastrophic equipment failure.

Filter media developments over the years have certainly increased the life cycle for oil filtration cartridges, but fluid dynamics require the ports in the media to remain 25-micron or larger.

An SAE report by David R. Staley, General Motors Corp., states:
"The smallest particles most popular filters captured with high efficiency are sized 25 to 40-micron, depending on the filter brand...[however] controlling the abrasive contaminants in the range of 2 to 22-micron in the lube oil is necessary for controlling engine wear."
These tests also confirmed that removal of particles down to 2-micron in size virtually stops the abrasion wear cycle.

================================================== =

made of neodymium magnets.

Guys do not get hung up on Neodymium magnets because there are many grades from N20 to N42 or even N52! each one having more BL or magnetic force.

Any magnet will work because as long as it has strength enough to hold onto the metal pan it will pull down metal particals in the oil and hold them, even N42 has a very short field strength, no more than an inch or two, the bigger the magnet the better because its total BL will be much higher and its field strength will increase, in the magnet game mass makes a difference.

I work for a speaker company so I play with magnets all day long :)

I forgot speakers. That's another place to get free magnets.

Sure it will, as long as the oil stream is in close proximity to the magnets (so that the magnetic field can reach into the oil stream, and thereby catch any metals subject to a magnetic field, which likely could include things like stray metal shavings).

However, lacking a metal surface that the magnet can auto-cling to, you will have to hold the magnets in place by some other means. This may be as simple as using a little duct tape. Or you could permanently glue the magnets to to outside of your plastic case (thereby having them always where you need them). Or you could use virtually any other fastening means that holds the magnets in place, but still lets them be fairly close to the oil stream (so that the magnetic field can reach out to that oil stream, and trap the metal shavings that are flowing past it).

NOTE: If you do put them on the outside of your plastic oil filter case, be sure to always wipe the interior surface of that case off when you change your filter cartridge. And the (somewhat obvious) reason for this, is so you remove those stray metal pieces (trapped by the magnetic field) every time you change your oil filter (instead of letting them keep building up, until they eventually may become a problem with plugging the oil line).

Speakers are a great source of magnets, you can split the plates and yoke off with a hammer and chisel.

To give you an example of how field strength works, if you take a small 50 gram Neodymium magnet and a 200 gram lump of Strontium which has a lower BL or Tesla, or Gauss how ever you wish to measure its strength, it will actually have a longer wider field,, the bigger the magnets mass the larger its field will be, you can see this when you have non shielded speakers to close to a CRT TV.

In fact the Sun has a rather low magnetic field density but because the Sun is 1 million times the size of our Earth its field effects things here and beyond.

You can get down that fine in filtration, if you go with a good "bypass filter" system. However, as already mentioned, bypass filter systems require extra oil path plumbing in the car (to be installed correctly). And they also have an initial cost (and ongoing costs for things like the filters used). So many people (reasonably) question if bypass filter systems are worth the initial cost/hassle of installing them.

As to the magnets (either a product like you mentioned, or even just your own magnets on the outside of the oil filter can), they are a great way to get small metal shavings that can be trapped by magnetic fields. This is very good, as those metal pieces are often extra sharp, and therefore a very good thing to trap (from a wear standpoint). And even if/when your filter(s) could do the same work without the magnets, using the magnets eases the stresses on the filters themselves (allowing the filters to last a little longer).

However, we need to keep in mind that magnets (while helpful for oil cleaning/filtering) only grab junk that is susceptible to magnetic fields. i.e. Magnets can help do things like trap steel metal shavings that get in the oil, but they won't help a bit with normal sand/dirt, or any other contaminant in the oil that is immune to magnetic fields. So it's still a good idea to get a better/finer filter when that is an option, even when you choose to add magnets to the oil (or transmission fluid) filtration you use.

That info is dated.

As far as I know its a true limit of traditional (paper) filter media, but no longer the true limit with the best nano-fiber synthetic filter media that is now on the market. For example, the Amsoil EaO oil filters (which I both personally use, and sell as an Amsoil dealer) use an excellent fully synthetic filter media. And those filters have no pores that are any bigger than 20 microns, and many of the pores go down to 10 microns. Yet, those filters not only trap 50% of dirt down to the 7 micron size (and over 98% of the stuff 15 microns or bigger), they actually have a better oil flow rate than many traditional car filters, that don't filter nearly as well. This is accomplished, by the fact that the synthetic media has many more "holes" in it than is possible with traditional paper filters, so this filter can make up for in volume (of holes for the oil to flow through), what traditional paper filters have to do with hole size (thereby maintaining the extra good oil flow rate, while still doing a much better job of filtering out contaminants)!

FWIW:
The reports I've heard around the net, suggest that the harm to the engine goes way down with junk that's 10 microns or less (i.e. most stuff that small, is too small to cause much harm). This doesn't mean that the ideal isn't still to get in the 2 micron or less range (i.e. things like bypass filters), but even if you only get the 10+ micron stuff (such as you can get with the EaO full flow filters I mentioned), you are still doing way better (in terms of engine wear) than you would be with a traditional paper oil filter.

Of course, while filtration is important and great, the true synergy comes when you use extra good filtration with quality synthetic oils, giving you the best of both worlds (i..e the extra good lubricating/flowing/cooling/cleaning/etc properties of the synthetic oils, combined with a system that constantly cleans/removes any harmful dirt/metal/etc that does make it into the oil). This is what I do with my cars, and I find it easily pays for itself over time. Because not only have I seen a real (if not huge) FE benefit from this approach, even the extra cost of the oil/filters is made up by the fact that I can go significantly longer between oil changes (thereby making the total cost/mile of doing oil changes LESS than I was paying when I was using more traditional oil and filters, simply because the quality oil/filters I use last so much longer).

Why the hell don't we have vortex principle/centrifugal separator type oil filters yet???

Duh! Of course...because the housing does not get discarded I can just permanently epoxy the magnets in place! I forgot about that.

Such people are the ones who have never had an engine problem that could have been helped by additional attention to oil. That includes me, though I've never kept a vehicle long enough to wear out the engine internals -- by 200,000 miles I generally get tired of fixing everything else.