Moving steering wheel
 

I guess that's the best way to describe what is going on. Whenever the steering wheel is turned past a certain point, the steering wheel will move in relationship to driving straight. Meaning, if the steering wheel is level, meaning both halves are the same level(-), and i turn too far to the left, then when I go back the steering wheel will be (/) like this, but only 5-20 degrees. The same goes for the opposite. When I bought the car, the airbag was on loose, but I don't know what that means. I am considering visiting a dealership, (best choice for these things here), but wanted to know what I should be checking first.

My guess: It shouldn't take a dealer to figure that one out. Even a crappy mechanic should be able to handle it. If it's just something loose, then the teenagers at the local tire retail chain can do it as part of an alignment.

I would not feel safe driving that car.

That doesn't sound good. Do you think it could be slipping on the shaft?

To test this, turn the key to the "on" position, but don't start the car. Next, try to turn the steering wheel with moderate force. If the steering wheel turns in one direction and keeps turning- it is definitely slipping on the shaft- have the car towed and get it fixed asap.

The car has already had an alignment done. It was one of the first things done to it. I will go check the wheel right now and see what happens.

It doesn't seem to be slipping in the column. I also wanted to mention something else. When I turn to lock, it seems that something is going too far. I checked the PS tire and wheel, and there was no play in the hub, up down left or right. Gonna try to get it looked at on Saturday. Gonna be with the GF, so I wont need my car.

Did the problem start before the alignment, or after? If it started before, then they're jerks for aligning it while it has that problem. If it happened after, I'd take it back to them and see if they failed to tighten something properly.

Could be a control arm adjustment or something.

If it doesn't slip and drives straight you can adjust the wheel fairly easily.

Park with the wheels dead straight like you want them, it doesn't matter if the steering wheel is off to a side. Actually, better if it isn't.

Under the hood your steering column can be separated by unbolting a shackle. That'll let the steering wheel freely turn and the wheels stay. Line the wheel up where you want it and re-tighten the shackle. If you already know how far it needs adjusted you could just measure it.

If they failed to tighten a tie rod locking nut back after aligning the front end it could be that the tie rod is backing out of the tie rod end, but if that's the case it will probably continue to get worse until it comes completely loose. If it's backing out then the alignment will be off again. If you can't check it yourself any alignment shop can check it out. I'd have it checked out ASAP. It could also be the steering shaft is slipping where it bolts to the sterring rack. Since the air bag was loose someone may have had the steering wheel off for some reason and not got it tightened back properly or the splines on the shaft are worn letting the wheel turn on the shaft.

I would also check to make sure that the steering box isn't out of adjustment and/or worn out. This isn't something usually done in your average tire store alignment, but your mechanic should be able to look at it and try to adjust it relatively cheaply. If the box is worn out and beyond adjustment that can cost you though.

-Jay

Does it keep spinning further out of 'straight' or a pretty common range of where 'straight' occurs.

If it's slipping when off or the column is 'locked' like asked above, then you're slipping the wheel on the shaft, I'd take the steering wheel off and verify the splines are ok and fix it for 'straight'. I've never done it the under the hood way.

If it's a pretty common range like I asked before, then it's probably the steering box. The worm gear or however the steering translates from teh steering shaft to the tie rods, could have a worn section.

My '92 Caprice was like this. I got it aligned first thing and was told the steering box was bad and alignment wouldn't fully fix the 'problem'. The problem was that if I turned left and then back to straight, the steering wheel would be level (-), but if I turned right and back to straight it'd be at about (\), and then to go left again I had a pretty good range of slop before it'd go left. You can definately feel it, I mean I could turn a good 1/16-1/8 of a turn and still go straight and not start actually steering the car either left or right.

I felt this was perfectly 'safe' though, I drove it like this for almost 3 years and didn't even think to mention it when I sold it (just realized I never mentioned it this second and sold it years ago). I mean you just got used to it. It never felt sloppy or unsafe really, you could always steer and there's no way it could really worsen or stop working completely. Just multiple choices for 'straight'.

My 74 Chevy pickup drove very similar to your Caprice. A friend of mine showed me how to adjust it. I got it tightened up and it drove like a new vehicle after that.

-Jay

It doesn't go further than about 30 degrees one way or the other. I will probably take it in Saturday, and see what the problem is.

O Genki Desu ka?
Check if the steering rack is loose in it's mountings to the car. There are several reports (saab, VW others) of the rack shifting and producing precisely the symptoms you describe.

Loose, not really, the unibody piece that it mounts to bent, yes. Seems the car was in a wreck before we bought it, and the frame, or unibody got knocked, and bent the steering rack up. There is a nice little finger that it mounts to, that sticks down low, and evidently got hit. Daihatsu quoted $2000 to fix. No one else would touch it. We will take the paper to another shop(aside from the chains) and see what they say.

Should be mounted to the front crossmember, which could be replaced.

I had a 59 Corvette that had a steering box that was so worn out the wheel would spin freely if you tried to turn left. To get it to the shop I drove through intersections and then backed up with the wheel turned right in order to make a left turm LOL.

It may be cheapest to replace the front crossmember to get things straight.

Never adjust the steering wheel until you have the alignment right, that should be the last thing you touch (the wheel).

Get the caster and camber right first, replace anything necessary.

Then get the toe adjusted properly WITH BOTH TIE RODS EXACTLY THE SAME LENGTH, or you will never get the car to drive right. If you dont every time you hit a bump the car will track off one way or the other.

After you have the camber, caster, and toe right, then, and only then do you change the steering wheel position.

You should also check the wheelbase on both sides, if you suspect structural damage that could affect the wheelbase length.

If the wheelbase is off, you can have every alignment dimension in specs and the car will still not drive right. Many times you can see a car crabbing down the road due to wheelbase dimension differences becasue it was not properly repaired.

regards
gary

I disagree. Adjust the steering wheel first. Find the mid point between left lock and right lock. Set the steering wheel to that center of the rack or ball and sector.
NOW set the other adjustable axes with caster first, then camber, and toe last.

Setting the steering wheel last will hide the specific crabbing effect described above. Setting the steering wheel first will prevent that lazy shortcut to mask, rather than correct, crabbing.
Checking wheelbase for differences left to right doesn't work on some cars that have intentional differences (Renault R5 / LeCar comes to mind)

(Insert politically incorrect joke about the French and crabs here)

Sounds like my Geo during the last few miles of driving before the RIGHT FRONT WHEEL FELL OFF. The steering wheel kept turning more and more left to go straight. You have something seriously wrong there and I would not be driving it anywhere fast or you may have trouble stopping when the wheels turn in opposite directions as the rack breaks loose.

The steering wheel has nothing to do with any crabbing effect.

Crabbing is totally due to misalignment in any of the 4 wheels involved in alignment. also to the individual positions of each wheel in relation to the frame, or unibody structure of the vehicle.

Sure the steering wheel should be centered from lock to lock.

Thats is not realted to the position of the wheel. If properly aligned the car would track straight if the steering wheel was not even installed.

I also emphasized IN CAPITALS that the tie rods have to be exactly the same lenght. If that is done then there is no place the wheel can be mounted but centered. Different tie rod lengths create bump steer and crabbing.

You are debating a detail that was already covered, by making sure the tie rods are equal length.

If everything else is in specs (and I mean EVERYTHING) the wheel will either be in exactly the right position or you have something bent that has not been discovered.

I bought a brand new Toyota with 6 miles on the odometer. The front tires had obvious wear issues on the outside of both tires at 12 k miles. Took it to the dealer who sold it to me. They tried to tell me it was due to not rotating the tires every 5 k miles. I told them to check the alignment. They said it was within specs. They lied.

I took to another Toyota dealer. The service manager was a long time friend. he put it on his machine and told me what was going on. Total toe was out of specs. The rear alignment was off also, with the rear wheels both pointing to the left of their proper positions. Solid rear axle (not adjustable). They replaced the rear axle and aligned the front wheels. It was still off. The car had to go to a frame shop to have the rear axle locating points shifted about 1/8th inch to get the rear wheels pointed in the right position. At 19,000 miles Toyota gave me a new set of tires for free.

Brand new car.

I have seen other Toyotas of the same year model belonging to people I know that had problems exactly the same as mine, which negated the possibility of my car being damaged in the 6 miles it travelled before I bought it.

I have seen cars that had their alignemnt screwed up when they were tied down on the car carrier.

Repeating, if the tie rods are the same length and the car is on an alignment machine, with the alignment properly set, the steering wheel can only be centered lock to lock. If not then there is damage somewhere in the system, be it structural in the unibody or frame, or in the individual suspension components.

In many cases a proper alignment means a real investigation into the total accumulation of damage incurred over the life of the car. In many cases the damage is disguised by fudging the alignment specs to cover the real issue.

Sometimes you have to start with checking the frame or unibody for damage as well as every component of the suspension, before you even have a chance of obtaining a proper alignment.

In most cases the wheelbase check will disclose the core issue. Even that will not always show the core problem, like a diamond condition in a ladder frame on a pickup truck.

regards
gary

Tracking is not driving with no hands. Tracking is the center between the front wheels and the center between the rear wheels being on the same geometric line as the vehicle moves forward.
If the rear axle were on an angle and the front wheels had been aligned, the vehicle would go in circles. The driver would compensate by turning the steering wheel to compensate and complain that the steering wheel wasn't "straight" when the cause is the rear axle not being "straight". Adjusting the steering wheel on the column is not the proper corrective action.
"Bump steer" is the change of the angle of the wheel and hub assembly as it moves in a vertical motion. The upper and lower control arm length is frequently not the same as the length of the steering rod from it's flexible joint out to the hub. Moving the hub up and down in it's arc of motion means the steering arm, on a slightly different length has a slightly different arc and does induce a slight turn about a vertical axis as the wheel moves up and down. That's bump steer. It exists no matter what the length of the tie rod end might be. Equal to the other side or not makes no difference. Not being within alignment tolerances will quite likely wear the tires more quickly, but this fixed geometric relationship between control arm lengths and locating points and the steering control will not change because the tie rod is adjusted. Tie rod length does not affect bump steer.

Besides that wheel not being straight he also said that the angle of the steering wheel changes when he works it from side to side and that indicates to me that something in the rack is moving that is supposed to be stationary relative to the frame. Be it the tie rod ends slipping in their adjusting sleeve or the entire rack or chassis it is mounted on is moving or bending. The steering wheel is on a spline shaft so it should not be slipping right? Grab a wheel while it is jacked up and steer it left and right and see what moves - if the alignment was checked and was ok then that leaves something that moves under load or in the steering linkage to the steering box.

As for bump steer - if the pivot points at the end of the rack where the tie rods connect are equal in width to the inner pivot points of the suspension A arms and struts then there should be neutral bump steer.

What I want fixed on my xB is the full stop wheel angles which apparently are not correct and it creates a lot of drag and tire scuffing when turning all the way left or right. This is in the design of the steering arm on the wheel and how much the pivot connection of the tie rod is offset in or out from the lower ball joint.