I look at corn based E10-E85 as a lost experiment. Cost too much affected the feed/food market. Lets move on and look for another alternative. I like the idea of algae based fuel.

thats where ethanol is a workable solution: harvest from algae.

Are we seriously going to have this discussion for the 17,000th time? Is there some new information to be shared, or what?

It saves money because I pay less for it. Yup- selfish. What are the options? Ya know I can sit and gripe about 1000 wasteful and stupid government programs and guess what- the programs live on and they remain funded anyway. Pick your fights carefully, isn't that what they say? Corn has been subsidized forever- waaaay BEFORE the ethanol thing came along. So ya can't really blame ethanol for that can you?

So there was a price spike- I'd blame the commodities traders. Corn's not at last year's price level now, is it. Should we apply your price rise doomsday scenario to oil? That spiked last year too, ya know. Not because of any rational forces either.

What about the people that only eat bread or rice cakes? What the ****? Who are they? Where are they? Some ethanol plants did that??? Using corn syrup alternatives is bad? That **** is in EVERYTHING. I say good, use something else for a change. It's not all that healthy anyway.

Did you know people in Haiti are actually eating DIRT? Yes, DIRT. You know what else Haitians do? They have 13 kids. That makes sense doesn't it. No food, no natural resources, oh, let's have 13 kids. Hmmm.... what do I feel.... oh yes, the word is SCHAUDENFREUDE.

"Given a choice"? What were our choices before ethanol?

Well, when someone questions whether ethanol does or does not displace gasoline usage, the numbers have to come out...or pretty much anytime there's a vague discussion of ethanol's effect.

Butanol can be produced by fermentation from bacteria. In fact, that's how it was produced in the past. DuPont and BP were starting a joint project on bio-producing it for a fuel in the UK. www.butanol.com claims to be able to produce as much butanol as ethanol from corn. With it's energy content close to gasoline, the butanol comes out ahead. It might also be easier to use waste/non-food feedstocks to make it than ethanol.

I was reading about that. There are like 15 start-up companies in the US alone working on making fuel from algae and other bacteria(job opportunities?!). It's all good for me. Just don't make me get rid of my V8 :(

I don't mind running a vehicle on 100% ethanol, as long as the price can be held to a reasonable level. I think E85 is good, just make it cheaper and more readily available. If I wanted E85 I'd have to drive to downtown DC, and even then there are only 2 or 3 stations downtown that sell it.

-Jay

i understand that the additives before e10 were supposed to be very harmful, so whatever, we use e10. now they want to up it to e15 why? so we arent using oil? what other reason is there?

honestly, should i respond to your comment against the world economy? they have that many kids because they dont have retirement plans. their kids are their retirement plans. think about their situation. what would you do if you ate dirt? how would you prepare for your future? i think we are just going to disagree there...

man you didnt really read my post, i guess thats my fault for writing it in an opposing fashion. it seems very clear to me that this motion is strictly to give people in the ethanol industry a lot more money.

i know that corn was subsidized before its use in ethanol, i am saying it doesnt need to be subsidized more. making ethanol is expensive.

the bottom line is ethanol is not the answer we are looking for and i dont want to be forced to use more of it.

i kinda agree with you there clench. ethonal has been around since the industrial revolution, henry ford himself visioned cars running on pure grain alcohal(and he did fiddle with ethonal a little runnign cars on it and such) hell during the depresion people were running model T's and A's of moonshine. course thats back when compresion ratios were 4:1 or less

lol the biggest world problem that noone wants to say is OVERPOPULATION, some 6 billion people now, predicting to be 9 billion by 2030. cant support all those people with our current practices and ways of doing things...but how u gonna "get rid of" people? 150+ years ago it was common to have 13+ kids because noone lived much past 50 and half the kids died from diseases/accidents.


yea i never understood that, living in really bad poverty yet they decide to have an ungodly ammount of kids... or the ones that say " well were going to keep having kids if gods going to give them to us" AHHH NO!! its called BIOLOGY. they musta been the kids that ddint go thru sex ed...

lol the worst gas additive i can think of thru time would be LEAD. rather be burnign corn than lead lol