Suggestions of a GM vehicle that I can get 35mpg in?
 

Hey guys.
To be honest I am surprised to find myself on this forum. (I'm annoyed by people who shut off their cars at stop lights, or people who overinflate their tires.)

This summer I would like to buy myself a little project. I think it would be fun and I hope to learn some things. I would like to buy a vehicle that is cheap to insure, drive, and work on.

What GM vehicle can I buy for under $3,000 that is SAFE!?
(Must be GM and I have to be able to obtain 33+mpg avg with mods) I plan to stripe most of the interior, lower it and maybe autocross it once or twice for fun. But I would use it most days and throught the winter with snow tires.

I 've been considering a Cavalier, S-series Saturn, fieros, or an S10.

I love Fiero GTs but they come with a v6 and are very thirsty. The 4 cylinder models are ugly plus they are considered a sports car so the insurace should be higher.

The s10 would probably be the cheapest to insure but the hardest to obtain 33 mpg.

What do you guys suggest? (NO subcompacts Metro, aveo, etc)

I can understand being annoyed by people who shut down at red lights and fail to restart in time, but what annoys you about people who overinflate?

Anyway, that's a tall order. The S-series Saturn is probably the only way to make it happen within your specifications, especially if you don't want to practice any gas-saving driving techniques.

If you're not a stoplight-to-stoplight racer, then stripping the interior and other weight reduction strategies won't increase your fuel economy in a GM vehicle unless you also adjust gearing and maybe tune the engine for fuel economy too.

I can elaborate more on the weight issue if you want, but I wouldn't recommend getting your hopes up.

Stay away from the Fiero... The maintenance costs are too high. A friend of mine once had one, and it was always being worked on. Eventually the car lived up to its name. (Fiero is Italian for fire)...

I would recommend the Saturn, with a 5 speed.

-Jay

[QUOTE=theholycow;136117]I can understand being annoyed by people who shut down at red lights and fail to restart in time, but what annoys you about people who overinflate?
QUOTE]

My main conern is safety. Standard valve stems are not designed for for high air pressure. If your going exceed the manufactors suggested PSI I would installed high pressure valve stems like they use in trucks. The other issue is tire manufactors have a max PSI, exceeding the max seems unsafe for the driver and others on the road.

Oh, I agree about not exceeding the maximum stamped on the tire sidewall. I was under the impression that standard valve stems were good for at least 51psi, a common maximum for P-series tires.

Don't worry about tire psi. Just run max sidewall or a bias from it and enjoy.

As for the other complaint. I'm sure you face more delay from folks yacking on there cell phones or folks screwing with there entertainment than some sot refiring after setting at a light.

With only wanting GM,,,, don't understand that. The Sat. is the car.

Thanks for the input so far.
Personally I would disagree with some hypermilling methods but I don't want this thread to go in the wrong direction about import vs american or safe vs not safe.

yea i second the saturn possibly the cavileer if u can find either an manual tranny.

the s10 well it IS possible to get low 30's... not for an averige unless all you do is interstate drive.

Out of your choices, I would pick either the Cavalier or the Saturn.

You list a Cobalt in your sig. What is wrong with that? You should get 35+ easy in it I would think.

cavaliers are pretty good.

before I did anything major, I was getting low 30s. in the summer, I top out just under 40 mpg.

also, mine is an automatic trans. 1997 to be exact

A mid-late 90's 1.9l SOHC Saturn SC with automatic trans will get 35+

It is a SS, thus being turbocharged and is rated at 22/30 mpg and I have to use premium. I am looking for a cheaper car to use most days. I want something with cheaper tires/brakes/gas etc. My current tires on my SS are $800 and I am will be lucky to get 20,000 miles out of them.

well stop drivin it so hard and tires will last lol. even el cheapo tires have a 40K warranty...

Malibu Maxx
 

My wife has a 2004 Malibu Maxx. EASILY can get 38.5 on long open highway stretches. The way she drives it's 27.6 average mileage, I get about 33-35 combined. More cargo room than a Jeep Liberty.

I would recommend a 1995 Saturn SL-1 with a 5 speed. My stepdad had one and would regularly get 40MPG with a slipping clutch. I say the 1995 because it still had the OBD-I computer (which sucks for diagnosing a problem, but got better mileage). Plus it was the first year they offered cup holders.

If you wanted to autocross it, while getting decent mileage, I would recommend a pre-1996 Saturn SC-2 with a 5-speed. I had a 1993 and while it was no race car, it had pretty good acceleration through 3rd gear (side note: DO NOT SPIN THE TIRES IN THIS CAR!! You can and probably will destroy the transaxle). If and when I drove mine responsibly, I got mid 30s in it. As far as insurance goes, when I turned 18 and started paying for my own insurance, it was only $56 a month.

It's the expensive tires that have shorter, or no, warranty.

I know what you mean, but whats the point of owning a sporty car if your going to drive it with lack of excitment. It would be a waste of upgrading to the SS model.

I can certainly understand that reasoning, but there is something worse: Driving a lame old non-SS economy car with lack of excitement. If you're doing the same driving either way, why bother getting another car for it?

I mean, it's just lame to have a nice car rotting in the driveway while you spend most of your driving time in some piece of crap*. Especially if you're concerned about safety...why not just drive the SS like you'd drive the Saturn, only during the times when you'd be driving the Saturn? The money you save not paying for another car, extra insurance, and maintenance can be spent on gas getting a few less MPG if you don't have the self control.

*: I'm not saying that any particular car is a piece of crap, but it's all relative and people who do that sort of thing (I see them on other forums too) tend to describe what they're driving as a piece of crap.

Anyway, just because you drive for economy doesn't mean you can't have excitement often and speed sometimes. One thing I do to save gas is taking curves at whatever speed I'm already going. On my commute I know my turns and approach them carrying whatever speed I'm going to use. Then I don't have to spend gas re-accelerating after the curve...and I get to enjoy my car's decent handling.

There's a few users here who drive very much for fuel economy, and race the same car in events too.

You mention several good points.
Believe it or not but I buy a seond car and issue it as my primary car my insurane will go down!
Chek out... My are is more expensive to insure than a BMW M3, Corvette, or an XLR.
https://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...s-allcars.aspx

I wish I could get that kind of arrangement. Every car I add only adds to my insurance cost. I don't get any discount for a vehicle being "secondary". I pay and pay and pay, and then I pay more. :(

Look at my gas log. Keep in mind that the clutch is only slipping worse.

When the clutch was good I was netting a solid 30-35 city before doing anykind of hypermiling, and running 35psi in the tires.

I'm now at about 35mpg city with a minor amount of hypermiling, a very minor amount of modifications, and running max pressure according to the sidewall - with a clutch that's slipping pretty bad.

Additional vehicles don't cost me much either... I think my Buick is only costing about $200/yr for insurance. Its dirt cheap to insure. Plus the trucks also have a "utility vehicle discount" applied to them.

-Jay

Ugh. My truck, my wife's Isuzu Rodeo, and my VW each cost the same to insure. The VW has a significantly lower liability cost but collision on it is expensive.

My Buick is cheap just for basic coverage, I think around the same $200, but since it's just rotting in my yard and I need the money I don't insure it. (I don't drive it since it's so rotten, but some day...oh some day...)

Look for a Saturn SL (not the SL1 or SL2). They could be had with the 5-spd SOHC engine, non-power steering and no power options. This makes them really light and surprisingly responsive, and the light weight pretty much counters not having the DOHC engine.

My girlfriend owns a '99, and by upiing the tire pressure to 38psi, and slowing from 75/80mph to 65mph on the highway she brought her average MPG up over 40.

She took it autocrossing once and it handled pretty respectably (especially given stock tires & 170K on the suspension)

Last I checked the book value on hers was about $1900.

my truck was considered a sport model (I don't understand that at all) but the insurance was pretty high on it.

I actually saved money be purchasing my car (liability only) and making my truck a secondary vehicle. I have since sold that truck.

I figure as far as insurance goes, I paid 2k for my car over 5 years ago and it has a salvaged title. if I wreck it, I would get about $200 for it and I would be out a car. if somebody else wrecks it (hits me) then their insurance will pay for it (their $200 check) either way, if It is wrecked, I aint gettin' much.

I might as well pocket the money that I would have spent on the collision insurance for now.

I don't know about that $200 beef. I'm not sure what the blue book for your car is but most insurance companies will only take off about 33% on the amount they'll pay you because of the salvage title. They pay you to get another car in comparable condition and age, not what your particular car is worth. I'm very sure if the threaten to sue over the 33% they'd just give it to you anyways. They seem to be REALLY worried about that stuff.

I don't know squat about GM cars, but this caught my eye a while back.

https://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=4884

Apparently Saturn's 5 speed manual transmission is easy to hack. You can easily install a taller 5th gear with good FE results.

FWLIW, I've never heard of a valve stem blowout occurring with 'reasonably' overinflated tires. With most mfgs suggesting inflation pressures in the low~mid 30s, 40PSI or so is a common compromise that seems 100% safe.

Agree with O/P regarding stopping the engine 30 times a day. I tried it for a while, and did see FE gains, but quickly grew tired of the exercise. Just thinking about replacing the ignition switch makes me 'annoyed.' :cool:

LOL - Gary Larson's 'Grizzlies from Hell' cartoon just LEAPS into my brain. I guess it would be "Holly Cows from Hell" in your case, eh? :)

Well thankfully it's not that bad yet...and I keep telling myself I won't let it get like that either.

https://rookery2.viary.com/storagev12...87145_fb5b.jpg

the $200 assumption was just that, an assumption. I know that the blue book value of my car is under $1000 right now so it really isn't worth it to me to put full coverage on it. that was more my point.

it has been a while since I looked up the blue book of it but it is 12-13 yrs old and has 186k+ miles on it with a broken a/c (hope to fix that after an experiment I am working on is complete)

I may look up the blue book on it just to see.

*edit*

WOW I was suprised

________private party Trade in
excelent___2120_______1025
good______1795_______850
fair________1445______550

a lot better than I expected. (still not worth much

Poor Buick... :(

It's cool tho, they don't care about broken ac or any of that. I'd lost all the trim pieces in my car, the ac was on the way out, the engine ran crappy since the timing was messed with, none of that they cared about, except I did have a receipt from when i had someone put in new timing chain tensioners and dampers, that helped a lot since it had only been driven about 300 miles after that work was done.

hopefully, I don't have to worry about insurance on my car (claims I mean). I have been pretty lucky. I say that very quietly because I realize that anything can happen. if you drive responsibly, others may not.

my hope is to sell my car to a junkyard when I am done with it. being that nobody else would want it.

Thanks for all of the replies.

I think I am going to keep my eye out of 96+ SL2 withe the DOHC cam motor. The SOHC make less power and are known to die around 150,000.

Thanks

I wouldn't run away from one made after 99, the fixed the head casting in 99 or 2000, can't remember which.

The DOHC's are solid, but will burn oil if maintenence is neglected and a top quality oil isn't used.

if you happen across a cavalier, you may want to consider it as well. I got mine for 2K when it had 95k miles on it. it's at 186k now with no big maintentance items so far. my mileage isn't the best out there but it isn't bad.

I think it boils down to the deal you can get at the time. if you happen across a half way descent car (depending on year and model) go with that. the point is to get an affordable gas saving car. if you don't get as good as others but your car costs practically nothing, you are still to the good.

Exactly.... to be honest this car will be consider my "beater". I won't mind parking it the grocery parking lot etc. It will be fun to experiment with mileage tricks, removing weight, and maybe doing some autocrossig with it.